I agree with you Bruce. I would like to believe that Hillary can change things in this country - maybe begin to dig us out of the mess George W. put us in. We can't go on the way things are now.

It's not misogyny, Bruce. The voices include lots of strong feminist lesbians', mine included. It's self-respect mixed with a loathing of DLC sell-out politics as usual.

We see in the polls a reasonable hope for better on issues of broader concern such as ShrubCo's foreign policy of perpetual war and economic policies that are turning the U.S. into a has-been.

We thus see no reason to slavishly support those like Hillary who are chasing after a dwindling right-leaning pool with things like her flag-burning amendment, muuch less those like Sen. Clinton who do not truly support us and use the selling out of our fundamental rights as leverage for their personal political gain.

Bruce, this is the second time in as many days that I've heard the mysogyny thing: why are Hillary fans to quick to jump onto that "he must be a woman-hater" argument when they meet someone (like me) who's not a Hillary fan? It's an offensive low-blow. I could come up with a list of umpteen women that I'd like to see as president, Hillary Clinton just doesn't happen to be one of them.

Your post seems to suggest that you'd vote for a candidate just BECAUSE she's a woman or BECAUSE he's not white. Before casting that vote, I hope you pay some attention to their platforms, too.

Actually, my first thought after reading Scotts statement, “To me, it couldn't be more transparent that this ‘woman’ has one agenda item (and it has nothing to do with the bettering of America). She just wants to be president.” was the same as Bruce.

My second thought was that Scott’s statement was an opposing party talking point: Hillary a, “one item agenda” (herself) candidate.

So Scott, would you care to share your list of some of the other women you’d like to see as president?

1. Ann Richards, former governor of Texas.

2. Arianna Huffington, former Republican fundraiser and current political analyst. (Foreign born, so unfortunately not eligible unless the law changes.)

3. Madeline Albright, former Secretary of State. (also foreign born I believe, but she's still on my dream list.)

4. Dianne Feinstein could be interesting.

5. Elizabeth Dole. She's a Republican, but based on her former affiliation with the Red Cross, I'd love to see her election platform.

6. I'd also like to see Vi Simpson from Indiana have a long political life.

Scott,

A very interesting list. I will say its always really easy to list a number women one would like to see President particularly when none of them are even potential contenders.

Again, I see that some of Hillary's recent decisions are very surprising and potentially alarming. What I still find even more alarming is that we are adding our own voices to the voices of the Republican Party in torpedoing a candidate before a campaign has even been initiated. We are buying whole heartedly into the rhetoric.

The notion that Hillary's only goal is being president and not to better our country fascinates me. She has a long history of service and dedication to noble causes long before marrying Bill.

I also wonder how many candidates are primarily motivated by their desire to be President. As a factor that seems to be a big one.

I was in a very skeptical place about her at a moment and again read the Susan Estrich book on a whim. This book changed my mind again. Estrich's arguements are impressive, as is her other work. But, she points out that inevitably Hillary will be challenged as unelectable or motivated by self interest in a way that a male candidate will not be. This seems to be true. I can think of no candidate as long as I can remember who wasn't self interested. Its always unacceptable for women to be self interested in the same way men are.