gosh, i'm glad that you're blogging here and that your experiences/thoughts aren't completely absent from this discussion.

i do remember, though, being a 14-year-old girl in a neighborhood perhaps slightly quieter than Bil's, and having johns try pick me up in their cars, and having no idea what cues i'd sent to have them assume i wanted to trade sex for money. it was a less than pleasant experience for me, and coupled as it was with lots of other attempts by men i didn't know to involve me in their sexuality, kind of made me not want to leave my house for awhile. i guess i don't regret those lessons in navigating the street, but i do think there's something more human about neighborhood group people and their motivations for not wanting a thriving public sex culture on their street, besides just their desire to protect property values.

i agree with you that rallying the neighborhood and the cops against hookers trying to get by is an act of violence against those sex workers. but how do you make space for Bil's daughter and his flower patch and for sex work?

Thank you Mattilda. I must agree that I am glad you blog here (though I like your own blog better.) Turning out the neighborhood to put a woman in jail is scary. Sort of reminds me of some where in some other time. It is distressing that "gays" in the Irvington neighborhood would be the ones who now are for "cleaning" up the area. How long have sex workers been working those streets compared to how long have these "gay" arrivals been in the neighborhood? Our cities can't be about only those who own or those with money and everyone else out. Tails between your legs guys when you are put out by new invaders. Happened before. Show a little heart "gays" of Irvington, as just a few years back you were and in many, many places you still are dirt in many people's eyes.

With all due respect, I am at a loss for words here, but I will give it a shot.

You ask the question of what would 218 days in prison would do to this woman? Why don't we ask her? You make the assumption that she would object to being incarcerated. Not trying to be cute, but I could think of some reasons I would prefer incarceration to continuing on the street. Being away from her pimp, a chance to dry out for whatever drug she might be on, being out of the inclement weather about to be upon us, three meals a day, perhaps a chance to get a GED. Perhaps she will take this as an opportunity for rehabilition. I am sure you think that is condescending that I do not consider this woman as productive a member of society as you do, but I don't see how this woman's behavior is making anyone's quality of life better, except for the pimp and drug dealer making a living off of her, as well as the johns who get a few moments of pleasure from her. And I would submit that unless you have personal knowledge of the "job sastifaction" of this woman, for you to assume she is as happy with her current vocation as you were is just the type of condescension you were objecting to.

You also intentionally ignore the elephant in the room in your post-these women are drug addicts. These women bring drug dealers into the neighborhood. Actually, you do mention drug dealers, but portray them as an oppressed group that are chased out when the evil gentrification force arrives. The horror! Drug dealers have killed more prostitutes than gentrification.

I just can't wrap my head around your logic. You can't move into a distressed neighborhood, unless you are fine with it remaining distressed. If your neighborhood is falling into decline, you just need to deal with it and invite those bringing the decline with them into your home for cookies and punch, and a nice syringe to "safely" use their drugs.

Remember Bil's original post? Too bad, Bil! Sorry your teenage daughter is getting propositioned while she sits on the porch, but what did you expect when you moved to Irvington! That you could raise your daughter without worrying about her being accosted? Well, you should have moved somewhere else, because the dirty old men were there first. And shame on you for trying to get rid of them!

I really do not mean to offend with my words. These are tough issues that should be debated. But you treat this issue in mere black and white terms, and portray this existance as noble, ignoring the seedy underbelly of this world.

Alex, as an aside, I would disagree that Irvington is the gay neighborhood in Indy. Bil will certainly disagree with me if I am incorrect, but I think that Indy is following the national trend and eschewing "gay ghettos" in favor of dispersing and assimilation. There are certainly areas that are more gay than others, but I think Irvington is just one of them. Chatham Arch (Mass Ave is still very, very gay), Near Northside, Woodruff Place, St Joe, Herron Morton, and now even Fountain Square are home to a good portion of gay folks. Just because there is not a rainbow flag in front of every house doesn't mean the neighborhood is still not predominantly gay. Indy never really had a clearly defined gay neighborhood, a la Boy's Town, so this process has been more subtle. As to whether this is a good trend, that is a debate for another time.

I agree that all people deserve respect Mattilda, and think it's sad that residents turned out en masse to put the woman in jail but I don't buy the idea that residents of a neighborhood should have to tolerate the status quo. Sure, streetwalking may be what the neighborhood is know for, but I highly doubt that the pre-gentrification neighborhood residents welcomed the arrival of sex workers and the attendant cruising Johns with open arms. Rather, being a working class neighborhood, their pleas to local law enforcement probably fell on deaf ears since patrolling non-wealthy neighborhoods isn't as lucrative as, I dunno... sobriety checkpoints, so those who could afford to moved out.

And then again, where do you draw the line? If prostitutes receive a pass because that's where they do business, what about an abandoned house that's used for dealing and/or consuming drugs or gang activities? Should that be allowed to survive and thrive because it's already being used that way?

Count me as someone who thinks that people who live in the neighborhood should have some control over it.

chuck says: "Sorry your teenage daughter is getting propositioned while she sits on the porch, but what did you expect when you moved to Irvington!"

if johns harassing residents is really the main problem residents have with having sex workers on their street, couldn't you think of this as a question of the relatively stable inhabitants of the area (residents and sex workers) enforcing standards of respectful behavior for johns, who are probably visitors to the area? if you had the hooker working in front of your house in for tea, perhaps you could discuss your mutual frustration with those customers who just don't know how to behave, and figure out a way to make the neighborhood safer for sex workers and teenage daughters alike.

And how would one enforce standards for customers? or for the ladies, for that matter, given that our culture is governed by the lowest common denominator?

Sorry for not responding faster, but today was pretty hectic.

Mattilda, I see you merely glanced over my arguments, and that is fine. Obviously, you believe that all of the problems in Bil's neighborhood can be solved with a cookie and a hug. That might work if the problems you describe are as abstract at the space aliens you compare these real world problems to, but sadly that is not the case. If all the prostitutes in the area were as articulate as you, perhaps this would work.

I also can't help but choke over the idea that drug dealers and other criminals would respond to this cooperative love and understanding you espouse. Do you actually have a situation where this method has been tried? Having had first hand experiences with drug dealers, I can vouch for the fact that they don't seem to like to listen to logic and reason, and really don't care for the improvement of neighborhood.

Emma, I would also encourage you to bring in the hookers into your home for tea to discuss the issues as you describe. I would then like to run the betting pool for how long it would take for your place to be broken into and your possessions taken and sold for drugs. That might sound mean, and some will surely say I am stereotyping, but put my theory to the test and tell us who is right.