Yup, one of the major aspects with his campaign that I've had issues with is that he's not secular enough for my tastes.

If he wishes to sacrifice the LGBT for appealing to the black church crowd, one of our most vicious opponents, then good riddance! I grow ever more appalled at just how badly our wall of church-state separation has deteriorated.

I said the "black church crowd" because they differ in how the homophobic WASP churches approach religious issues; their methods of communication of their interpretations of gospels are different. You took my comments out of context and resorted to faultily assuming that I only perceive the black community to be the prime container of homophobes.

I talk about this demographic because it's relevant to this topic; Obama is not courting WASP church votes. Also, you quoted me but didn't seem to read my comment thoroughly enough, as you missed the "one of our most" part, which means that I DO take the other ethnic and racial counterparts into account.

I also pick up an apologist tone in your description of the black (I should have included "charismatic") church. Just like most churches with Southern roots, they are of the most socially retrograde kind. Seeing down here in Florida black church members in military uniforms isn't actually the most reassuring representation of acceptance. African Americans, along with Hispanics (Catholic and Evangelical alike, even though in Latin America the religious proportions are 90% Catholic, the other 10% divided between Protestants and Evangelicals) have the worst ratings on GLBT issues. Pam's site has a post that is a fine reflection on this issue. In comparison, more white religious leaders possess better ratings on LGBT issues, not to mention that the WASP community, unlike my Hispanic or your black community, has actually bothered to acknowledge LGBT's existence. I will not bother with my "community;" since it has such a hard time accepting people like me, I'd rather adopt another culture that is more receptive. If you, however, decide to stick with yours, where black heterosexuals constantly stab their own LGBT members on the back whenever they get a chance, I suggest that black LGBT leaders start working harder on their community rather than expecting white LGBTs to do the work for them by giving them visibility. It is outrageous that there are no visible Hispanic or black LGBT leaders; apparently they'd rather be accepeted and stay quiet. More Hispanic and black gay men stay closeted. I read an article on the Miami Herald where this organization leader for Hispanic and black LGBT men talks how most of these men do not want to call themselves gay because they dislike the feminine stereotypes associated with white gays. Out of all groups, it is simply infuriating that gay men would be so rabidly sexist themselves. I stand by my previously mentioned positions on other posts: Until the black and Hispanic communities don't liberate themselves from the iron grip of church culture, you are not going to see much progress.

I could not care less about which racial/ethnic-linked church is the most homophobic; I have nothing to gain by claiming either side. As an atheist, I see most organized religion as detrimental to the development of an open-minded society, anyways. Maybe I'm biased, maybe it's the resentful feminist in me that most strongly rails agains Hispanic and black culture, where sexism runs the most rampant. If anything else, you can always pin it down to me just being an irritated, bitchy atheist railing against the increasing push of trying to appeal to religious sectors for LGBT acceptance. I think we have more to teach them about community than they have to teach us.

Nice rant there Lucrece. I've been in the same boat and I completely agree with you.

You are right...this is in now way...a black issue. It is an issue of someone making a very poor choice. Mary Mary has said that gay people are like prostitutes and murderers but that she love us.....I say Fuck You Mary Mary and the holier than thou horse you rode in on. I don't need your conditional love.

I doubt that Rev Donnie is a closet case, I think it would be a safe bet that the boy is getting some dick somewhere.

I was a huge fan of the Obama camp. Now...not so much.

jack jett