I completely support challenging sex offender registries, and the criminal justice system in general, as a means for addressing this type of crime.

The sex offender registry is meant to protect the community. It won't protect the community, but therapy would. That's my argument.

I agree with you there. But I take huge issue with this idea:

If I turned self-hating gay Republican closet case? I might be doing things like Glenn Murphy here or Larry Craig or Mark Foley.

Larry Craig was cruising for consensual sex in a public space. Glenn Murphy on the other hand sexually assaulted multiple people. The two are worlds apart, and I'm really shocked that you'd lump them together so casually.

I reject the notion that being a closet case leads one to commit sexual assault anymore than being out prevents one from doing so.

I actually think that our demonizing sex crimes beyond any recognition that we all have the ability/potential to commit them prevents us from finding effective solutions.

That is such an important point. I really like that part of what you're saying, and your comment cleared up a lot of my concerns. But this language is problematic for me:

unconsenting adult gets dick sucked

It's passive. The other two examples you give focus on the actions of Craig and Foley, but this one focuses all the attention on the survivor. Instead it should read something like: "one sexually assaults a sleeping adult, one tries to have public sex with another consenting adult, another perved, possibly more, on consenting minors".

Do you see the difference? I’m reminded of this article on the grammar of male violence.

"The point of bringing up the gay stuff was to show that what Glenn did is treatable."

No, by your own statistics, it is sometimes treatable, some of the time. There is no fool-proof system, but therapy (which all convicted sex offenders complete as a condition of probation in Indiana) helps the sex offender, and the knowledge of this person's crime helps the community. Not a perfect system, but it sure beats just therapy.

See, that's the thing that really sucks when you finally get busted for molesting multiple men while they sleep-the consequences tend to follow you around for life. Hindsight is 20/20. Sucks he has to fill out all this paperwork and be a pariah, but I'd rather take my chances on that and give an innocent person a chance to arm themselves with knowledge than have someone be victimized again all in the name of letting him get on with his life.

And this is a whole other can of worms, but what exactly is wrong with shame as punishment? Perhaps we wouldn't have a lot of the crime we do today if it still carried the stigma it used to. In today's world, we glamorize crime, we don't condemn it.

And I think you are incorrect about Larry Craig having to register as a sex offender, but please correct me if I am wrong.

And you make a good point about him having "pleaded himself down" Alex. The older, and better connected, who have perhaps done ten times the harm get do do that which is why the judicial system is unfair to younger persons and minorities.

But Glen Murphy is 33 and was obviously taking advantage of a younger person. OK, one person complained and a few brave young hetero men/boys allowed they would testify against him if it went to trial. By my gay math (and abusers of this type I have known) he has performed this act not on one, six, or a dozen, but hundreds who will not testify.

I have long felt that there had to be a connection between childhood sexual abuse and the rabid hatred of Gay people by some hetero men. If you look on the data bases for sexual predators you will find them in every community, or any size,across the country.

Yes, punishment and two years will be adequate considering what could likely happen to him in prison. Yes counseling, to control his problem and allow him to develop real relationships with people. Yes monitoring, because it is the law. If you dislike the law a movement must be begun to overturn it. As an abuse survivor myself I would have to say I will not be participating in that one.

"Prove it. Please. Prove that sex offender registries reduce recidivism."

I never said it did. I said "There is no fool-proof system, but therapy (which all convicted sex offenders complete as a condition of probation in Indiana) helps the sex offender, and the knowledge of this person's crime helps the community. Not a perfect system, but it sure beats just therapy."

By that, I mean the knowledge arms the community with the ability to be vigilant against the offender. Sometimes the best recidivism is avoidance, which is why even after therapists say sex offenders are "cured" they still urge them to avoid contact with tempting situations.

"Actually, no. He was busted for molesting one man. The others said they'd testify if there was a trial, but there wasn't, that his charge was related just to the victim in Cook County."

You are splitting hairs there. And you will recall that it was the Judge's decision that the prior bad acts of the defendant could be used against him at trial that persuaded him to plead guilty. The standard for 404b evidence is pretty high, and requires among other things, that the Judge find the witnesses to be credible. Murphy and his lawyer must have thought they were too, since they hot footed to a plea when the ruling went against them.

"Please explain how labeling him as a "violent sexual predator" will prevent someone else from getting victimized. The victim in this case wasn't his neighbor and never would have looked him up on a registry even if he were on one."

Well, if just one person avoids another Murphy sleepover as a result of this, the registry will have done it's job.

"Who's talking about shame?"

Never said you were. That is why I began that sentence with "And this is a whole other can of worms."

"Re Larry Craig, yeah, my comments response to Nick was inaccurate. I can't find anything about him having to register as a sex offender. He pleaded himself down."

I don't believe that even the lead charge Craig was charged with was a registerable offense in Minnesota. Proof?

Robert, I hope this question isn't too uncomfortable, but at what age did you experience sexual abuse? It could be argued that depending on the age category, crimes can be more heinous than others.

Ten, through sixteen, sporadically by my father's best friend. I did not ask for it, (even if I had it would have been wrong) I did not know what to do about it (was embarrassed by it and thought it was my fault) and I know I was not the only victim. And no, in 1963 I could not have talked to my parents about it.

When I find out someone is a "chicken hawk" I just get away from them. When I came out and we were all in the same boat according to the APA these guys loved to hover around the social edges at college campuses looking for their next victim, and brag about how young they were among themselves. In smallass Lafayette Indiana I knew two different men past fifty who were only interested in those under eighteen in 1972. One of them, surprise, was a scout leader and the other was an opportunist with runaway teens. They still make my skin crawl.

And their heterosexual victims walk through their lives not talking about it out of fear, ignorance and the embarrassment of exposure. I believe that they are also the hard core Gay haters. I believe Human Rights Watch is correct. There are no easy answers. I do not believe Glen Murphy is necessarily a gay man. Predators thrive on having others in their control.

My opinion, my observation at ground zero, and enough said. Thank you for your posing Alex.

I called the folks vetting Republican vice-presidential running mates for John McCain to ask them if they would have automatically taken Larry Craig off their "short list" had he been on the sex offender registry. They said that under no circumstances would they have put Larry on the "short list", regardles of registry status. Do you see any sigificance in that?