Great post, Patricia.

The past two weeks have been really mind blowing. I don't know what to think. What really gets me is that the government keeps saying that we might be able to avoid a recession. Uh, hello?

listen, this isn't about recession or depression, this is about a government takeover.

washington mutual has been taken over by the government.

is anyone listening?

are we so fucking scared we can't hear?

all I can say is save your money, stay in cash and have a plan.

I'm not an alarmist. I have sat through the dot com bust, I have sat through the credit crisis and I have calmly recommended to stay the course.

the course has changed forever.

wake up people. it really is time to storm the streets.

do we have the guts?

From what I understand, people are calling their represenatives and telling them in no uncertain terms to take the bailout and stuff it.

People are sick and tired of the bull that this administration has pulled on the American public. they realize now that Bush's "compassionate conservatism" only applies to his corporate cronies who have spawned this mess by wallowing in the greed that Bush and the neocons have told them "good business" is all about.

If Joe shmoe has been conned into buying a house with an ARM he can't afford, then it is his fualt for trying to live beyond his means and he should face his responsibility for getting himself in such a mess.

If Brad the banker makes questionable investments in sub-prime mortgages and other iffy securities, well that was just a business decision that turned sour, it can't be His fault for making a poor decision, after all, he does have an MBA from Harvard or some other ivy league school.

Perhaps Brad and Bush should share a cell somewhere for the the outright fraud and corruption that they have foisted on the country for the past eight years.

Maybe it should be wall street who has to take up the collection to correct this mess, rather than the American people. I mean with what those people were making in the "boom times" 700 billion should be a drop in the bucket if they all chip in.

No matter what we do, we are going to have a depression. Whether it happens next week, next month, or put it off for awhile by this misguided bail out, it doesn't matter. This country is going down, and there are plenty of people in this world who will celebrate our demise as a world power thanks to the Bush Doctrine.

Quite a legacy your'e building there Shrub, keep up the good work.

Patricia Nell Warren said: "I wondered what it would take to get a record turnout of protesting Americans at the White House gates with a sea of placards and TV cameras."

Perhaps gasoline at $1.89 per gallon so we could all drive to D.C.

To hell with this bailout, let these bad debts be allowed to liquidate back into the market for a market value, instead of a bureaucratic estimated guess of some arbitrary value as assigned by the FED and Departments of Treasury whilst making the entire nation culpable for these poorly crafted ponzai security schemes.

Let the criminals who created this debt have their companies liquidated.

After all, not passing this "bailout" will most assuredly lead to recession.

However, this bailout whereby the FED literally prints money our of thin air will lead to hyper-inflation and thus a collapse of the Dollar, therbey taking out every individuals saving's account.

To hell with criminal bankers, their crooked lobbyists, and their puppet, Secretary Hank Paulson.

I'm so tired of the language of fear that this administration constantly substitutes for logic so that they might use whatever situation that arises to their own benefit.

Frankly, I think my chicken is fricasseed.

Good post, Patricia. It's very informative, and information is what we need most of all. Keep it coming.

This is a lose lose situation for Wall Street, for the Democrats who service them and for the Republicans.

First of all it’s the conjunction of an unwinnable but must-win war with a sharp economic decline that might lead to a resumption of the Great Depression. It’s virtually certain that the US is going to get it’s ass kicked by the Iraqis, Afghans and by the Pakistanis and Iranians if they’re next on DCs victim list.

Second, the bailout is absolutely necessary because the US is now a debtor nation, like Argentina or Egypt. That means that the bailout, which will cost trillions in whatever form it takes will be tremendously destabilizing;

o - It can’t be implemented without the imposition of a ham-fisted assault on our standard of living; an imposed austerity program that could last for decades.

o - It’ll cause a decided shift towards rightwing oppression when people react to the dramatic new drop in their standard of living.

o - It’ll mean the end of any chance of renewing any of the social programs eliminated by Clinton, it’ll intensify the degradation of our infrastructure in a period when ecological disasters are on the rise and cause even more debasing of our already backward educational and medical systems.

Third it opens up a whole new discussion on the role of government, one the Democrats and Republicans have tried to stop of decades. They’re nationalizing private debt and making us pay it off while privatizing the profits of the very speculators to got us into this mess. The Democrats will put a fig leaf on it and wring their hands but they’ll follow the Republicans right of the cliff just like they did with NAFTA, deregulaion, Iraq, and DOMA. They have no choice. Otherwise the economy will crumble, and it may anyway.

It’s political suicide for them because working people will begin, as they did in 1929, to seriously question the system, and begin serious struggles to change it. The impetus of those struggles will lead inevitably to the question of who should rule, the speculators and their lapdogs in DC or working people. And that will happen whether the Great Depression resumes or not.

I do not consider myself knowledgeable in any way about economics, but my parents lived through the Great Depression. It took WWII to get us out of it.
Right now we are already in the midst of an undeclared war in which a precedent was set because we weren't responding to a direct threat. Rather we were making unsupported assumptions.
I remember a time when most Americans worked together for a common purpose. I have also lived in a foreign country for a period of time where it was every person for him/herself. In recent decades, we have become like the foreign country I lived in and far too many of us are now motivated by selfish greed.
I see ongoing attacks on what has been the backbone of our country - The Middle Class.
People who have a million dollars seek to have ten million dollars. Those with ten million need a hundred million, etc. Where does it end?
In all of our major cities, there are increasing populations of homeless persons. How many of these persons had good lifestyles eight years ago?
I remember WWII, and I am now more afraid for the future of this country that any time in my lifetime. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm afraid we may be teetering on the brink of a calamity that will make the Great Depression look like good times. And it will make us vulnerable to an attack from another nation.
The irresponsible greedy people who caused this problem need to be held accountable for the mess they created, including the people who allowed it to happen. If banking laws allowed this to happen, the laws need to be changed. If banking laws prohibited what has happened, why weren't they enforced?
Presidential political posturing should not be a part of this. The only way a solution can be find is for both political parties to find a solution for the good of the American people. To do otherwise will lead to devastating consequences none of us really want to consider.
I believe it could happen.

Wait until folks realize they may not be able to buy fast food every day and even the McDonald's employees will be out of work. Americans will riot over Mickey D's... *sigh*

Patricia, I think it's going to take a lot to get people to rise up against this government. Because no matter how corrupt this system is, people are so separated from their neighbors and communities that it would take a miracle to get people to start working together to fight for a common cause. Do we need to riot? Absolutely. But when you can't even get people on the Left to agree to cooperate amongst themselves (do we have consensus, or do we vote; should we allow property damage, or are we total pacifists . . . . I know, let's make a committee to talk about that . . .), I am really skeptical that they'll get their shit together. And it's unfortunate, because you know how well organized and will to move the Right is.

Quite honestly, if shit goes down in America I'm jumping ship and going to Holland. This country's not worth fighting for in my opinion. I'll go back to my family's place of origin (I'm first generation) and kick it with the Dutch. 'Cuz they know a thing or two about how to keep the banks running, and they don't give a shit if you're queer.

I was originally against the bailout because I didn't feel that it was the responsibility of every taxpaying citizen to bail out the companies and individuals who made poor financial decisions; however, I think that our economy is so close to collapsing if something isn't done that some form of bailout needs to take place. I don't know what exactly (I'm not an economic guru), but something!

You know, it all started with the politicians not being held accountable for their messes, and now it has devolved to wall street and the high rollers being able to skip out on their responsibilities.

All in the name of "Saving" an economy that is going to go down the tubes anyway due to a federal deficit that hangs like an albatross around the neck of every man, woman, child and even those not yet born.

And what do the politicians and the wall street fat cats care, they have theirs. Bush is going to spend the rest of his life safe and sound, on the taxpayers dime, while the rest of the country has to deal with his legacy of debt and ruination.

He just keeps adding to the list, a war criminal, responsible for the greatest swindle and fraud in the history of the world, the gross violation of human rights in the name of the war on terror.

Yeah, we could sure use some more of that compassionate conservatism of yours Shrub.

this time though, could you use just a little lube?

I think we have to remember the wealthy, the truly wealthy, to not want to see the value of the dollar decline. This "bailout," which will likely be a long term profit, may well pay part of your social security someday.

Patricia, I am reminded of the ancient Chinese saying: "May you not live in interesting times."

Serena makes a good point. The American people have been inundated with materialism for more than 6 decades so they won't possibly ban together and do something about rich folks taking too much money. They just don't know how to work together anymore.

A brilliant, scheme, I suppose, by junk dealers after the second world war to get us to value ourselves based on what we buy, instead of our ability to actually accomplish anything.

I'm finding it a little difficult to assemble my thoughts. I'm no economist, nor am I a politician or lawyer. But I try to pay attention to the world. And while I find myself 'reeling', along with my American Brothers and Sisters (of all persuasions, not just GLBT family), I try to pay heed to the fact that there is more than just the American economy at stake here.

Unfortunately, America finds itself in the proverbial "Catch-22"; damned if they do/damned if they don't. There is probably no 'right' solution to the issue and the real problem is deciding which solution is the 'best' one.

Patricia is right though...the "kingdom" is falling apart and all the king's people are out to get your chickens in an effort to save it. Maybe even more, because once they've got the chickens, they'll also have the eggs. Then they could be back for the roosters, if you follow the drift.

Perhaps the most important thing to do is examine how all of this began and take steps to prevent it from happening again. While free enterprise is a wonderful concept, rampant greed and mismanangement of other people's money is something that warrants close public scrutiny. Yet it seems that the various public 'watchdogs' may have not been paying sufficient attention to schemes like sub-prime lending. An obviously successful marketing tool, perhaps, but what business sense does it hold? Even a budding entrepreneur understands the need to sell a product or service for more than it cost him. But was 'sub-prime' the beginning? Probably not.

The beginning is somewhere just after 9/11/2001. Don't misunderstand, please. I was as distraught at the events of that day as any American was. But I have to wonder if the actions taken to remedy that situation didn't contribute heavily to what has happened 'at home' since. All of a sudden, the leader's become tunnel-visioned in the 'war on terrorism'. Beefing up Homeland Defense--best part of the plan. Making an attempt to get the perpetrators, with a little help from your friends...that's ok. But does it make sense to keep spending money to to maintain a 'war' that has become futile? Does it make sense to focus on one issue outside of home to, what seems to be, the exclusion of all the problems at home?

Perhaps if the 'watchdogs' had 'some' of their eyes focused at home, some of what has now come as a major economic crisis could have been averted. Just maybe, if some of the trillions spent on waging futile battles abroad was spent on homeland issues, like health care and homelessness and joblessness and vigilance in what senseless business practices were developing...things might not have mushroomed into what has become a devastating economic disaster.

What it boils down to, I think--and like I said, I'm no expert--, is that it doesn't really matter what action is taken, the people of America will wind up paying for the mistakes of the greed-mongers regardless. And not just the American people...subsidary companies, investors, investment firms, banks, you name it, around the globe are feeling this.