Marriage Protection advocate Maggie Gallagher sparred with Mike Mike Signorile the other night about same-sex marriage. He mops the floor with her.


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The transcript is below the fold.

CNN transcript:

Our guests tonight are passionately outspoken on both sides of this issue. Maggie Gallagher is president of the National Organization for Marriage. She is a strong supporter of the ban on same-sex marriage. And Michelangelo Signorile is a gay writer and talk show host who's been a long-time champion of same-sex marriage. Thanks to both of you for joining us.

OK. Maggie, why oppose anyone getting married, whether it's two men or two women or a man and a woman?

MAGGIE GALLAGHER, OPPOSES SAME-SEX MARRIAGE: What I oppose is the right of the people of California and the other states to protect the definition of marriage as the union of husband and wife. Listen, people have a right to marry. They don't have a right to decide, to redefine marriage for the entire state of California, or the entire country.

Unions of husband and wife, really, are different. These are the only kind of unions that can make new life and connect those children in love to their own mother and father. And this is a really important social ideal to millions of Californians and to Americans -- to have exercised their civil rights to peacefully organize, vote and donate, and are now facing an extraordinary campaign...

LEMON: Not every married...

GALLAGHER: ...and intimidation against them here in California. It's very serious.

LEMON: Not every married couple, though, procreates.

GALLAGHER: Every unions of husband and wife have this capacity, and every man and woman who marries can give every child that they have, a mother and father. No other union can do this.

LEMON: All right.

GALLAGHER: And very man and woman who marries is not going to be producing fatherless children across multiple households. So, they deserve this ideal.

LEMON: Michael is being very respectful here. And I'm surprised, because, you know, I hear him on the radio and I've seen him on other programs. Not that he's not a respectful guy. But usually he's chomping at the bit to get in.

OK. She says that it is something that is special between a man and a woman that they can procreate in a married relationship.

MICHELANGELO SIGNORILE, SUPPORTS SAME-SEX MARRIAGE: Well, as you pointed out, Don, not only are there many heterosexual couples who do not procreate and cannot procreate, but many gay and lesbian couples procreate. There are thousands and thousands of gay and lesbian couples across this country who have children. Many of them had them naturally. Many of these women, certainly, lesbians have them naturally. Many of them have adopted children.

Every study has shown that they do great. The American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, all talk about how there's absolutely no study that shows that these children do any worse. Some studies even show lesbian parents have children who do even better. So, we're talking about an issue that doesn't really wash here. Of course, children are in heterosexual families as well as gay and lesbian families.

LEMON: OK. Here to both of you. Here's what's surprising to me that I heard from Maggie that I hadn't heard. Won't you listen to this, Michael? She's saying that people who supported Prop 8 are being fired, and they're being intimidated by these protesters.

Maggie, is that so? Yes or no?

GALLAGHER: Well, yes. But not necessarily by these protesters.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: OK. Hold that thought.

GALLAGHER: Listen, what is happening is that the names and addresses and the employers of people who donated to Prop 8 are being put up on the Internet. People are being told to go after their employees. They're required to --

LEMON: OK, Maggie, hold that thought. I want to let Michelangelo get in on this after we take a quick break. This debate is from over. We're back seconds away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. Maggie Gallagher and Michelangelo Signorile - I just want to say Signorile, it's Signorile, both join us now. OK. You heard that. She's saying that the name and phone numbers of the people who supported Prop 8 and businesses who support it, their information is being given out, they're being harassed. In many cases, people are losing business and some people are getting fired, Michael.

SIGNORILE: Well, look, I've heard from people on my radio program who've been fired from their jobs because they voted against these ballot measures. We also had a ballot measure in Arizona as well, Proposition 102, that the voters passed banning marriage. I've had people whose bosses overheard them say that they voted for it and they got fired.

But look, with Proposition 8 in California, it is the public record. If you put money down to take away people's rights, and this was a right that was already given, unlike in Arizona and elsewhere. This was a right that people enjoyed since June that the California Supreme Court said this constitution held for gays and lesbians.

If you take away someone's right and your name is up there, it is public record and you better put your money where your mouth is. You better be proud to sing it loud if that is what you believe.

GALLAGHER: In other words, what you're hearing is that there is no shame about this. Michelangelo is endorsing this. There's no marriage advocates putting up the names and addresses of people who voted no and anything.

(CROSSTALK)

SIGNORILE: Maggie, the names and addresses are public record.

(CROSSTALK)

GALLAGHER: Go dig up, go dig up dirt on this. Don't attack these people. Don't take away their livelihood. Let's blacklist artists who disagree with you on gay marriages, too.

(CROSSTALK)

SIGNORILE: They are public record. Look, it's one thing if you...

GALLAGHER: This is happening and it's one-sided right now, Michelangelo.

SIGNORILE: It's one thing if you speak out.

GALLAGHER: I don't think it should happen to you if you disagree with me.

LEMON: I beg you, I have to say, though, I have to say that there are...

(CROSSTALK)

GALLAGHER: ...civil rights to organize, to donate without threats and intimidation as a result of doing so. LEMON: Maggie, there are gay, lesbian and transgender people who say the same thing that you're saying now, that they're being fired for their jobs just because of who they are. What is the difference?

GALLAGHER: I would -- first of all, I would certainly repudiate that. The difference is that it's a tactic. I mean, it was the "No on Prop 8" people who put up an ad going after the Mormons. It's an ad we would never. If someone who were holding up signs saying that Jews...

(CROSSTALK)

SIGNORILE: Maggie, there are 18,000 couples who have had their rights taken away.

(CROSSTALK)

GALLAGHER: ...that Jews have donated too much money on this. And therefore, let's go and put -- hold up signs in front of them, attack their places of worship, hold up signs saying dumb and moron, too.

(CROSSTALK)

SIGNORILE: Can I get a word in here, please?

LEMON: Stand by. Maggie, let him get a word in. Go ahead. Go ahead, Michael.

(CROSSTALK)

SIGNORILE: Can I get a word in here? Maggie, can I get a word in here? Are you going to allow me to talk?

GALLAGHER: Yes.

SIGNORILE: 18,000 couples have their rights taken away.

GALLAGHER: Absolutely, that is wrong.

SIGNORILE: Can I finish my point, please, Maggie?

GALLAGHER: Well, you've been talking over me, Michelangelo.

SIGNORILE: 18,000 couples...

LEMON: Yes, this isn't doing anyone any good. You guys talking over each other. Hey, Maggie and Michael, it's not doing any good, you guys talking over each other, but hang on. I'm just going to stay with this a little bit longer.

Maggie, let him make his point, so he can get it out. And then I'll give you one as well.

SIGNORILE: Thank you. 18,000 couples have had their rights taken away from them. They enjoyed these rights. They were given to them by the Constitution of California. The Supreme Court read that in the constitution.

Now, these people who voted against them decided to act and take away their rights. It's different from saying you're opposed to marriage.

LEMON: OK, Michael, finish it.

SIGNORILE: You now voted against people and took away their rights.

LEMON: OK, Maggie, real quick. Because I only have a few seconds.

GALLAGHER: The Constitution of California gives people the right to organize, to vote and donate. And we should do so, each our side, without this atmosphere of intimidation.

LEMON: All right. Both of you, thank you very much. And both of you have a good evening.

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