KATHLEEN: No, no, no. You misunderstand me. What I'm saying is that I think that the way that masculinity has been constructed in our society is fucking boys up. Because, even if you just look at it on a personal level, it's like, I can't hang out with boys who haven't educated themselves or been educated in some meaningful way about sexism. And so it's like, the guys who wanna be friends with me are just gonna miss out , you know? And I happen to think I am a pretty cool friend to have, you know what I mean? The way I look at it, it's a lot more complex than saying white equals evil (although it's a perfectly fine thing to say sometimes).

KATHI: We're all losing out.

KATHLEEN: Right. All of us. what I'm saying is that inequal Power distributions and hierarchies, in general, dehumanize everyone involved... and you know I don't think it's in anyone's best interest to just playing top/bottom games forever. I mean, things could be really complex and interesting, but they're not gonna get that way unless people with privilege seriously start challenging ourselves in terms of how we oppress and/or abuse "others." You know? And we have to check each other's shit or else we're all gonna miss out on things being cool. You guys are seriously missing out unless you all start listening to girls.