Well said.

No doubt Serena will be pleased with this contribution.

Oh, and 24 sucks!

I'm really impressed by this column. I've been angry at religion over this issue, probably because I left my own religion -- partly because I just couldn't reconcile it with supporting LGBTQ civil rights.

But expecting everyone to choose between G-d and gay people (as they might see it, not me of course) just wouldn't be reasonable.

And essentially you're right: The less of a gulf there is, the more it will help.

prince...

you recently responded favorably to a letter i wrote you and posted it on your blog. i wanted to remind you of that as i disagree with you.

indeed, what he have here is a failure to communicate, and in that respect i am glad you are reaching across fences.

i believe the majority of those of us who are furious are not mad at ALL mormans, and those who do make blanket condemnations need time and space to calm down, because they have been grievously injured and are responding as any injured and cornered creature would.

our main grievance is with the hierarchies of the morman AND the roman catholic faiths, as well as the leaders of most of the evangelical churches.

while many of those who have hurt us are as innocent of real knowledge as a flock of sheep, if real sheep are trampling your ass, you hurt some until you get their attention...AND MAKE THEM STOP.

those same modern mormans you are talking to are still funding the better than $20 million campaign that went into the defeat of prop 8 and in my state prop 2, unless they have stopped tithing. keep that in mind.

by all means work your corner, but please remember that NON VIOLENT directed protest, worked for gandhi, king, and it will work for us. we can know longer allow them to ignore us.

you might enjoy this, i know it is amusing the heck out of me...

http://www.towleroad.com/2008/11/fort-myers-flor.html

jack

Way to go, Prince. The intellect and effort to reach out that you display here are what will eventually win the day, while knee-jerk emotional reactions simply cause people to dig in their feet and start swinging. Keep it up, man.

BTW - 24 stresses me the fuck out when I watch it.

I'm glad you mentioned supportive Mormons...I think there's definitely the tendency to separate gay people and religious people, when they can overlap. If there was ever a time for gay Christians to come out of the woodwork and be visible, I think this is it.

Rosehiptea, John, and Asexy beast, thanks for your comments. Yup, "divide and conquer" is a dangerous path, so hopefully some us us will able to build bridges.

24 and religion have a common denominator for me too, Prince! I liked them both much more when I was younger, but as I grow older they both lose their allure.

It is entirely unrealistic to think that the LDS hierarchy will ever 'shift its position on homosexuality.' Serena posted an enlightening essay on this, from which the following:

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"But I think it's foolishly naïve to think the Church is ever going to change its tune. Why?

Well, for starters, temple marriage is the guiding metaphor for everything else that happens in the Church. As I mentioned earlier, you can't get into the highest level of heaven without getting married in the temple. Here's what Wickman says to anyone who thinks that the Church might budge an inch on the issue:

For openers, marriage is neither a matter of politics, nor is it a matter of social policy. Marriage is defined by the Lord Himself. It's the one institution that is ceremoniously performed by priesthood authority in the temple [and] transcends this world. It is of such profound importance... such a core doctrine of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, of the very purpose of the creation of this earth. One hardly can get past the first page of Genesis without seeing that very clearly. It is not an institution to be tampered with by mankind, and certainly not to be tampered with by those who are doing so simply for their own purposes. There is no such thing in the Lord's eyes as something called same-gender marriage. Homosexual behavior is and will always remain before the Lord an abominable sin. Calling it something else by virtue of some political definition does not change that reality.

If the definition of marriage is changed to allow anyone to get into heaven, then WTF is the point of having a Church with a hierarchy and handing over 10% of your income to the Church? Heaven has to be an exclusive party if it's going to be heaven. We can't just let in any sort of riff raff."
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Years of unhappy experience with the large (and growing) Mormon branch of my own family convince me that she's correct. And I've come to conclude that you do nobody a favor by encouraging individual Mormons to adopt a more tolerant position. It only gets them in trouble in the church; but they never leave it and they end up miserable.

Prince,
Thank you very much for this.
As a gay man who was raised Christian, the points you make encourage me to be more gracious toward my Christian friends about Prop 8 controversy.
It would be convenient if we could continue to see this as a black & white issue, but I think people on both sides of it have been feeling that their personal feelings - and friendships - are in conflict with their ideals.
It helps to have gentle reminders, such as this essay, to continue making a mutual effort toward coalition.

I definitely think we should sleep with the enemy, especially an enemy of the same sex.

Then, we should get it on videotape and put it on the internet.

The majority against gays is shrinking and it's very heartening to see the live-and-let-live attitude among young people in the polls.

LDS and the Catholic Church do change, but they are monolithic and the change is slow. We do need to keep up a generous dialogue, knowing that we do indeed have the RIGHT on our side. Keeping that in mind, we can take the high road in any argument.

The very fact that Prop 22 had a 61 to 39 vote and Prop 8, just eight years later, had a 52- to 48+ vote is a huge bravo for our side and shows where the future is headed.

In my "Reading Room for Kids" on my website: http://webpages.csus.edu/~boblocke/index.htm, I now have a "CIVICS 1A" link with arguments pro and con Prop 8. No, it was a scare tactic of the Far Right to say that "gay marriage would be taught in our schools", but now we really do need for our Civics students as low as 8th grade to understand how discrimination works with our constitutional amendments. Go take a look, and send lots of people there.

And Prince, thanks for ALL you do for this good world.
Bob

I just read your article and found it most eloquently said. I'm a minister and gay and find it like trying to span two pieces of land with a stream going between. The stream's growing wider and more turbulent and, I fear, I may need to one day choose which piece of land I can stand on.
I grew up in the Deep South part of Texas. You made passing reference to Evangelicals in the great article. I've seen them "up close and personal" and don't want to let cover themselves in such a wide-encompassing word as Evangelical. Maybe Revivalists, fundamentalists, Selective Literalists--but not Evangelical--which means good news spreaders.