Ah, three lefts make a right.

What?

Violence is never the answer. Our anger, which I agree is justified, must be directed to massive organization, peaceful protests, and political outreach to our representatives and Senators on both the state and federal levels.

At the risk of sounding ironic, let me give a big "AMEN" to your sentiments. :-) Thank you, Sara!

Better get used to it because more is yet to come with the release of MILK nationwide. Sounds like your sons are not gay so probably will not be influenced by our fighting for equal rights.

Please tell me what violence occurred.

I watched the video a few times and was thrilled to see a neighborhood stand up for its right to end persecution that was visited upon them by uninvited guests with an agenda of agitation and viciousness.

Was anyone arrested by the numerous police in attendance? Were any charges placed? Was anyone injured?

If gays made a point of making a scene in a place of worship that they aren't a member of nor were respecting would it be fair for them to be run out - or does this wagging finger of yours only point to us?

I too was saddened by watching this video, but please allow me to expand by way of a personal story.

I was directly involved with martial arts for the better part of two decades. I taught martial arts. I taught self-defense. I taught, or helped teach, self-defense to: police officers, abused women, families of drug enforcement agents, and rape victims among other opportunities I was lucky enough to receive.

Once, when I was still in high school, I was supposed to spend the night out with some friends, but the nature of the trip changed. A female friend of ours had been kicked out of her family house. It turned out we needed to pick her up and take her to another friend’s house to stay. No one who knew wanted to explain why she had been kicked out. They also didn’t want to explain why the place we were picking her up at was the local gay bar. Believe it or not, I was too naive at the time to fit those pieces together.

When we got to the bar, I was left outside with one of the group. While I was standing there on the opposite corner from the bar, I spotted trouble approaching. The bar sat on a corner. Down one side was walking a sizable group of ex-athlete looking, large, drunken and aggressive acting college students. Invisible to them walking down the side street was a small, skinny guy dressed in a black vest, no shirt, chaps and a tiny black cowboy hat. It was obvious that they were literally going to run into each other at the corner.

I got sick to my stomach. I knew without thinking there was going to trouble. There was no one around to help the cowboy but me. And as a self-defense instructor, I felt a responsibility to act.

But before I even took a step toward their side of the street, the two groups met. The cowboy was immediately surrounded and the taunts started. One of the drunken mob felt free to immediately grab the cowboy for some purpose. I was frightened that the cowboy would be seriously injured before I got there things were happening so quickly. I was frightened I would not be able to handle the situation myself. But that’s not what happened.

What happened was the cowboy fought back. He put three of them on the ground immediately. He chased the others around the street corner getting in hits where he could. As it sunk in that they were getting their asses kick by a small queer in chaps, the entire group took off running. The cowboy chased them up the street. They ran into a house on the next corner, and the cowboy took a proud stance in front of the house and repeatedly dared them to come back out.

I hope you can understand that it was one of the funniest and most beautiful things I have ever seen to this day. I suspect given where they apparently lived/hung out that due to his actions violence and intimidation directed at the local queer community took a dip after that day.

There are times and places for violence. Violence is sometimes the answer.

I have personally stood still and let people punch me in the face because I thought that was the best solution. I have also personally knocked people out because that seemed like the best solution. As someone involved with self-defense I can tell multiple stories of people saving themselves through non-violent action, and I always taught people to look for any successful non-violent choice first, but I can also provide examples of the opposite.

Gandhi once said that if he thought violence would solve his countries problems, he would advocate for violence. It may sound inconsistent, but it’s not. He was saying that violence would bring problems of it’s own, would justify counter-violence and would most likely ultimately result in failure. It was a logical, practical argument. An argument saying that non-violent activism was the most practical way of achieving the best solution.

I saw this video in Bil’s post. It really bothered me. Like it or not those proselytizers had a right to be in the Castro. They have the same rights to free travel and free speech that are so important to LGBT people. I did not see any physical violence in the video, but both the proselytizers and the police clearly seemed worried about it. And who wouldn’t be when being chased by an angry mob? It was not a proud moment for me. I don’t want to see LGBT people breaking any laws or perpetrating any violence toward anyone. I don’t want to see any abuse, even ugly taunts. Both out of principal and practicality, I don’t want to see LGBT people acting in ways we would find vile in others. I don’t want to see our civil rights movement derailed by violence. I want to take the moral high ground away from the religious right, not cede it to them by ugly behavior.

At the same time, I have always argued that black militant groups were an important part of the black civil rights struggle. I have always argued that the raised clenched fist was an important symbol for both the black and white communities to see.

I definitely don’t want to see us doing harm to others. Or even appearing to do harm to others. But neither do I think the LGBT community needs to be a punching bag.

Emotions are not wrong. Anger is not bad. It takes a whole person to act productively. Owning emotions that some characterize as negative is part of being whole. I do not support any rude, improper or illegal activity even as small as hurling an insulting epithet or petty vandalism. Not because anger is bad or violence is always wrong, but because it violates the laws of civility. And because it works against our efforts on a practical level. I have no intention of supporting any group, organized or not, that engages in such behavior.

But I think some channeled gay anger, some queer militancy, might well be productive.

You couldn't be more wrong Sara. You’re equating the victim with the victimizer. There was no second wrong here, just the insistent, and considering the provocation, legitimate demand that these christian pigs not be allowed to comingle with the humans.

Women, if defense of themselves, their families, their unions and their class can be just as fierce, and rightly so, as the men and women in the video.

Which is a damn good thing.

Paris, 1879
“Shouldering the burden of feeding their families, it was the French women who took up arms on October 5, 1789. They first stormed the city hall in Paris, amassing a sizable army and gathering arms. Numbering several thousand, the mob marched to Versailles…” Where they killed several royal guards, almost killed Marie Antoinette and arrested the royal family at gunpoint, taking Marie and Louis the Last to Paris and their eventual execution.

Petrograd, 1917
“On the last Sunday of February, Russian women began a strike for "bread and peace" in response to the death over 2 million Russian soldiers in war. Opposed by political leaders the women continued to strike until four days later the Czar was forced to abdicate…” The Czar was arrested and became, thanks to the militancy of the women, Nicholas the Last.

West Virginia Coal Strike 1989
“During her lifetime, Mother Jones was known to working folk as "The Miners' Angel." Persevering in her efforts despite the many tragic events she witnessed, her fierce determination was vividly expressed in her famous declaration, "Pray for the dead and fight like hell for the living." When she was denounced on the Senate floor as the "grandmother of all agitators," she replied in typical fashion, "I hope to live long enough to be the great-grandmother of all agitators."

During the bitter 1989-90 Pittston Coal Strike in Virginia, West Virginia and Kentucky, the wives and daughters of striking coal miners, inspired by the still-surviving tales of Mother Jones' legendary work among the miners of that region, dubbed themselves the "Daughters of Mother Jones". They played a critical role on the picket lines, and in presenting the miners' case to the news media.”

Thanks, Sara.

I don't know why, but I just thought of one of my favorite quotes from the Big Lebowski. "I myself once dabbled in pacifism. Not in Nam, of course."

"Threatened" bigots in Castro part of ultra-extremist Dominionist sect, "Joel's Army"

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2008/11/elijah-jezebel-showdown.html