Tha Mormon No on 8 commoercial wasn't humorous, and I don't see how anyone who watched it could interpret it that way.

It was in a nutshell describing what The Church spent millions of dollars to do, take avay the existing civil rights of fellow citizens.

If they'd run variations of that commercial targeted to African-American, Latino/a, and Asian-Pacific islander communities we may be talking about a different result.

I really enjoyed the points that both Rev. Irene Monroe and Serena Freewomyn brought up. Hats off.

Generally I think the discussion was a good one. Great to hear all points of view from across the board.

The blame game is getting us nowhere. Yes, let's better those mistakes in the future. But we lost. It's over and let's push onward.

I think Greta Christina's comment about how we should have done more on an emotional level is spot on.

Fighting for "rights" is so cerebral. What most people fail to understand is WHY we want these 1,138 rights - Because cruel suffering happens when those 1,138 rights are NOT in place!

I have been very frustrated with the "Give or Go Away" approach, as someone who CANNOT donate a single penny to purchase my civil right to civil marriage, nor can I get out of the house and fight for these rights outside of my home. All I can do is share the stories of the suffering that are usually overlooked in this "debate" on my blog, and continue leading people to both legal and "disobedient" forms of tax protest. Words are ALL I have; I cannot write a check for rights, but still wonder if I would go that route IF I had the money to do so. It stinks no matter which deodorant we apply.

Alex,

I guess it is much easier and much safer to sit at a keyboard and bitch about people that actually did work than actually do work to help win equality for LGBT people.

Maybe you will be motivated soon to join the fight rather than just comment on it from on high.

Thanks for the coverage, Alex. I also think that the emotional piece needs to me more at the center of this. We need to show our families, show our relationships, show what we do on a daily basis. The misconceptions of what is means to live a "gay lifestyle" are what needs to be attacked. We have to stand up for our dignity. No focus group or expert consultant is needed to understand that at the end of the day politics and life come down to people. We have to share our stories. People always have been and always will be the common denominator.

Alex, who said those in power this last time will be given the reins the next time? They only have power because they assume it and people have been happy to let them.

But the HRC ballot measure model has failed over and over and over again -- from Colorado's Amendment 2 onward -- and it's because they do not respect the grassroots ground operation that is a necessary component.

Part of the reason is that they have always -- in part of necessity for fundraising necessary to support their K-Street working style -- organized not according to political geography from the precinct up, but urbanly, where the money can be gathered more efficiently. And their board has failed to then require that the staff turn those dollars into political geography based infrastructure.

If anyone would like to understand from a master how to accomplish that latter goal, either channel the spirit of Harvey Milk, ring Sally Miller Gearhart's doorbell, or book it to Austin to pick Glenn Maxey's brain.

I don't think that belittling a religion's basic practices/rituals (as long as they're benign) is a good idea and I think it would have been better to use a generic Yes on 8 doorknocking couple in that ad, criticizing the Mormons instead directly for being the largest source of funding for Prop. 8, for the LDS's leadership defaming us during the election cycle and continuing to do so on the church's website, for the church's extreme under-reporting of its direct aid to the Prop. 8 campaign, for the church's use of implied threat to its members to donate to and volunteer for the Prop. 8 campaign at peril of their church membership and eternal reunification with their family in the afterlife if they did not, and for the fact that this is hardly the first time the church has used its influence to rob us of our rights -- that, instead, it is an ongoing campaign against us of long duration that has become increasingly and highly active for over a decade-and-a-half, including virtually all our trouble with the Boy Scouts of America, and one that does considerable harm to us and our families.

But gay Mormons in this war that their church has declared upon us, where their church has set up a situation where there is no middle ground, and who choose their church despite that, deserve to be treated as the Vichy scum/Quislings/scabs they are, shaved heads, tarring-and-feathering, and all. May they be barred from all gay community support and left to find comfort from their BFF Donny Osmond.

I remember when I was in a deadlocked negotiation with a state's health department about getting an effective HIV prevention program for injection drug users going ... the thing dragging on for years with my team jumping thru every hoop required only to discover that more hoops were suddenly put in our path.

I finally spoke in the next meeting with officials about a dream I had had where we were all in an fully equipped ambulance ostensibly heading out to rescue people from a flood that started to slowly take the victims one by one then picked up speed and was taking victims in ever greater numbers.

I had my foot pressed down hard on the gas and the state officials had theirs pressed hard on the brakes and we were going nowhere. I told them that, in my dream, I realized that I could just take my foot off the gas, go around to the back of the vehicle with my team, pick up the rescue equipment and get to work rescuing those flood victims still left alive.

I then said that that was what we were going to do starting right then and that we would welcome their help whenever they decided for themselves that it was what they wanted to do. Then my team and I stood up, went around the room shaking everyone's hand and assuring them personally that we had no hard feelings -- as they just sputtered in stunned shock. We then left and hit the streets saving lives and health.

There is another option to "dragging them kicking and screaming" into twenty-first century organizing. Gently let go of them, letting them know that we'll be out doing the work that needs doing and, if they want to come work productively with us, they'll be welcomed. Then just get going getting the work done, leading by example by sharing information and power and involving everyone willing to help at their full capacity.

This is not brain surgery. It's just identifying the people who stand with us and getting them to the polls, identifying those who reasonably can be helped to stand with us and educating them to the point that they are -- then getting them to the polls, and raising enough money to get the job done. But it must start with figuring out how many votes you need and where they can be found instead of leaving that to the gamble that a media effort has been successful enough.

To Michael's comments, I'm surprised one fellow blogger on this site would talk to another blogger on this site in that tone. Its not the way I would treat other bloggers if I blogged.

I am frankly dumbfounded that Marty Rouse of HRC said what he said and that he has not been fired on the spot. No lessons to learn? And people wonder why HRC is so reviled. Maybe if you've been in the movement 20 years, and we've lost so many fucking battles, it might be time to start learning.

His comments show no humility whatsoever, a complete lack of understanding that maybe HRC doesn't know everything under the moon. If this was someone running an organization or company of mine he would be shopping resumes right now.

Of course, its HRC, so He will probably be promoted next. Director of Training sounds good, sense god knows, no one could train him, hell he has no lessons to learn.

I have one for him- humility.

Since I worked on the campaign in Northern Calif, in a county that won I would like to make a few observations. Can anyone tell me if any of the panelists were POC? I will reserve comment until I get the answer.

Since we were assured at the start of the campaign that this effort would learn from past mistakes and in fact did not, I do not think it is time yet to move on. Why not? Has anyone with one shred of decision making power said this is what we did wrong and this is how we would change the next time? Because there will be a next time. There has been NO accountability and no transparency still so I feel there is more to be discussed so I am not ready to move on.

One more thing in reference to the previous discussion about blogging vs doing other chores. I wanted to blog if I was hired by the campaign. I was told in capital LETTERS, NO! No blogging. I could never find time to blog when working full plus time on this campaign so I just wanted to point that these are two different jobs. Unless one walks in another's work shoes it is difficult to appreciate what is being done. But when this electionwas over I wondered aloud where all these people had been during the campaign who were now out marching. Just my perspective from the front lines.

Michael Crawford is crowing about his 'work' supporting the candidacy of the bigot whose "god's in the mix" torpedoed our marriage rights in California, Arizona and Florida.

I hope that as the bigot pandering of Obama and the Democrats produce the expected results he'll take the opportunity to rethink his political misleadership. Aiding and abetting the election of a pro-business, pro-war bigot-pandering hustler like Obama is nothing to be proud of. On the contrary...

Alex Blaze continues to confuse the GLBT movement and the Democrat party. That confusion among the unelected, self-appointed misleaders of No on 8, HRC, and various movement bureaucrats, coupled with Obama's "god's in the mix" is the direct cause of our recent defeats. The Democrat party is one of two parties that pander to bigots and are owned by bigots. They’re still tossing us under the bus.

The GLBT movement should respond to Obama and the betrayals of the Democrats and Republicans by becoming independent of both. Our goal is not to elect more hustlers who’ll more forcefully toss us under more buses, but to fight for our equality. That cannot be done through the Democrat party because they are the enemy.