referring to people as 'post-ops' is objectifying, and offensive.

Monica, I read what you have to say but in some regards I have to disagree. Now, if you want surgery you can get it unless there is some medical problem and I think that is the only way that would block you. I have seen people who were very poor with nothing and get surgery, it is because they wanted it. This doesn't mean that I feel you have to have surgery by no means. It is that part that comes up as excuses. If you want it you will find a way.

I truly recognize that many (perhaps most) transsexuals feel that they need surgery to complete themselves.

On the other hand, I know that the "real" transition is complete when one begins to live outwardly as the person they feel they are inside. For all but a few people, whether one has had reassignment surgery is irrelevant.

I try to remind those who are thinking about transition that the surgery is the icing on the cake, not the meat and potatoes. If they are living the life that was once only a far-fetched dream, then they are enjoying their cake and eating it too.

I hope you find the sweetness of the frosting and are able to savor it when it's finally served.

Thank for your compassionate look at transition, Monica, and all the ways it can go, or not go.

As for the comment that "if you want it, you will find a way," I know trans women who want it but are living hand to mouth, sometimes employed, too often not. It doesn't matter how much they want surgery.

If someone is stuck in transition, it's because they choose to be stuck in transition. Undeniably there are reasons some make that choice, it is their choice nonetheless. There are surgeons who will operate on HIV positive TSs and though the choice of whether to have GRS is one's own, with very few exceptions most non-ops are non-ops simply because they choose to be, not because there are insurmountable obstacles.

I agree with Sheila...if one wants GRS, they will find a way to get it.

I'm of two minds on this topic. On the one hand I agree with everything Monica wrote. OTOH I agree that most TSs who wish surgical transition can find a way to accomplish it.

I suggest a litmus test for the TSs who claim to want to transition surgically but who have not done so. The test starts the moment they go "full time." From that point till now what have they spent their money on?

Many TSs can honestly point out they have spent their funds on food, shelter and other basic and necessary expenses. These are the TSs for whom Monica's comments apply.

However, other TSs (if honest) might mention spening significant amounts on things like flying all over the USA, paying for hotels, etc. to be involved in activism. Or perhaps they spent significant sums of money on other hobbies or possessions. In which case these TSs have made the choice that other things are more important than surgically transitioning. This being a valid choice for them. But not a choice that justifies claiming GRS has been impossible for them to accomplish.

Nerissa, You know soooooo much about people...too.

Looking for more ways to justify a non-op status?

... let me count the ways 1-199 (blah blah)

not once do I see on the list of excuses the one that should be at the head of the list which becomes the one that is never discussed.

... ready ?

Not getting surgery because I really don't want too and I have no problem with my current genitals.

We justify that by calling it a "neoclit" ... (transgriot)

"I knew the rocks would be moved on this article, revealing the usual suspects" .. Monica Helms

So you infer then that long term post operative women live under rocks, that we crawl out of the darkness to attack unsuspecting prey?

Seems to me like a victim statement .. oh sorry yes .. the transgender movement is all about being victims. The activism movement on the other hand is all about feeding ego's.

Wake up and smell the coffee. We ARE your peers dear .. We have way more, hands on, practical knowledge than you on this subject.

Reminds me of a microsoft simulator pilot whining that they cant fly the jet because they don't have the licence to do so. It's sooooooooo unfair!

How many times have we seen it?

Monica posts. Some agree, some disagree, some offer alternate perspectives. Anyone but anyone who disagrees with The World According to Monica is not met with discussion and debate, but insults and sarcasm.

Yes Monica you are right in what you say and my response to that is that for years we have stood silent, watching and waiting to see where all this activism is going and to what extent it has helped our lives.

Why don't you tell us all what the activists such as yourself have accomplished eh? Please, make a list, show us all what EXACTLY your activism has accomplished for transpersons (not for the glb as a whole), but specifically for trans persons. I challenge you to make that list and post it here.

Here is my list of what activism has produced:

-----------------

Violent Backlash

Public Scorn

Increased Employer Discriminatory Practices

Increased Heathcare Discriminatory Indifference

Increasing roll back of post op marriage rights in some states that once recognized the rights of post op transpersons as being a member of their target gender.

Public opinion that all transsexuals are inherently gay.

Public opinion that transsexualism is all about sex workers and transsexuals are mentally sick.

--------------

So, you charge that I and other post ops have a mindset that are not willing to listen to more of the same from trans activists ...well guilty as charged. You and yours blew it. You all started out with good intentions, of that I have no doubt, but then you took us all into the GLB ghetto, you sold out trans issues for a place at the table of the GLB.

You know, some of you transitioning gals reading this article should really be asking yourself where you want to be 10 years from now.

If you follow the dogma put forward by the trans activists you will be continually in transition, a protected species with a false sense of security that you're rights will be upheld, that you will be able to force employers to give you jobs, or stop them firing you, neither of which ENDA will guarentee and neither of which will guarentee your'e security or well being.

Do you really think that the men and women of this world are ever going to come to accept that a persons gender is not at least to a large part defined by their genitals?

Monica and others in this happy band of maybe_one_day_if_I_win_the_lottery - ops preach that genitals don't matter! They do so because it is CONVENIENT for them to do so. They do that because it is in their best interests to do so! Now it may be convenient for you to belive her on this, but the plain truth of it is that genitals DO matter to at very least 85% of the inhabitants of this planet! Ask the men on this forum .. ask them if they would date a post op. Ask the Lesbian women here if they would date a pre-op ? And now go out and ask everyone that walks into your local supermarket the same questions and see what their response is!..

All this "neoclit" business is BS for any self respecting transsexual woman. Either your'e planning to transition your sex to that of the opposite sex or your playing gender games, and lord knows there are plenty of gamers out on the net. All this feelgood gender equality crap is just that! .. There is no such thing in the real world. You will either make it because your you are in fact the sex you say you are, or you will live and die in the GLBT gender ghetto, never quite able to make the leap to womanhood ....

... stuck in transition.

My name is Leigh. Post op since 1985. Full time since 1978. I was born lower middle class to poor white folk, have created several companies over the years, have helped a pre op become post op, and never once gone to a gay pride event. I am currently married to a heterosexual man that raised several kids with his previous wife of 18 years....

and then of course there are the gender heros such as Helms, Sandeen and Roberts .. and of course we all know their qualifications .. right?

I generally tend to ignore the stuff posted here, but this one really needs a response. Why not simply acknowledge that one does not want surgery, that you really, really, really, really, really want to keep your penis, and that you are not, and never will be a transsexual? What is it with some that they have this seeming overwhelming compulsion to call themselves a transsexual, and to co-opt that experience when they are not?

I'm sorry, but it does not give one any increase in credibility, it does not make up for past attacks on post-ops, it does not, in fact, do anything good.

""Why don't you tell us all what the activists such as yourself have accomplished eh? Please, make a list, show us all what EXACTLY your activism has accomplished for transpersons (not for the glb as a whole), but specifically for trans persons. I challenge you to make that list and post it here."

Yep .. Still waiting on that list ..

Guess I shouldn't hold my breath huh..

I agree with the opinion that life is a continuous cycle of transition like the seasons of the year. However, your reasons for getting “stuck in transition” appear to prioritize (or validate) physical change as of primary importance to the journey of transsexual life. The destination of personal Nirvana in your example is seemingly defined as “THE BIG EVENT” of SRS.

This is where we part company.

Successful transition, from one phase of life to another should NEVER be defined by outward appearance. Transition is and always will be an inside job. It’s about getting things right on the inside first and foremost as priority #1. When we’ve reconciled life and arrive genuinely at peace with who we are then tangible, physical issues such as money, medicine, marriage or family relationships can take their rightful place as secondary drivers in life. The material “wants” or “needs” of surgery most certainly don’t define one as transgendered---or transsexual---anymore than body parts. The pathological qualifier of labeling—pre-op, post-op, non-op---is insidious, divisive, elitist and exclusionary. We’re each individuals on a personal journey, no singular path or expression is inherently better than another---EXCEPT to the individual in question.

Beauty will always be in the eye of the beholder.

What’s inside our hearts and heads is what counts first and foremost when it comes to happiness. When the attitude is right on the inside, everything on the outside takes its place in the landscape more appropriately as “window dressing”. The window itself remains of critical importance, allowing us to see clearly while letting the sunshine in. Get the inside job right and the road ahead will be a much straighter, truer path, far easier and certainly more enjoyable to follow---in spite of the inevitable stops & starts along the way.

I got back a little late but if you would have read the last part of my post it did say that there are some who don't want the surgery and that is OK too. I have also said and I believe this, that just because you have surgery that it doesn't stop there, the transition. I have also said that diversity in the trans community is huge. We all have different wants and needs. My way is NOT the only way it is my way. What I did say is that there are way too many excuses about "the surgery". I feel the only good one is medical. If you don't want the surgery good for you. I never said you had to had surgery.
I don't think I was very clear in my views. I only addressed the excuse part of surgery.

"I find no support here when i do come here"

Sorta like saying each time I hit my elbow with a hammer, it hurts!

:5 days now .. still no list