Nice lecture... why don't you go have tea with David Mixner...

Your old school ways have not accomplished anything measurable in the last decade.

We have wasted millions on Human Rights Campaign and Equality California and we didn't even get a t-shirt out of it. What we got was a group of mostly White "comfortable" LGBT elites running our movement and trying to use our time and energy after you set in place failed strategies.

This silly little lecture of yours accomplishes nothing but seems to practice many of the things you abhor.

But hey, i am just an uppity 37 yo Latino who doesn't know diddly because I don't have degrees on my wall or the professional resume you do.

Why don't we all step back and let your generation take us down the path to equality...

OH WAIT WE TRIED THAT ALREADY = FAIL

There are so many things here to address that I'm not sure where to start. I'll try to go in the same order as you.

First off, you're making a lot of unfounded generalizations of a whole generation. It used to be true that everyone was ignorant of LGBT issues and history until they came out, but while that might still be the case for plenty of folks today, there's plenty of people who are raised on LGBT issues and history. I was raised by parents who came out around the same time you did. I've been involved in ballot campaigns since I was 9 years old (and navigating homophobia since I was 3). So while I'm young, I too can claim decades of experience in this realm -- you've only got a few years on me there. Sure, it's not the same kind of experience you had, but it doesn't need to be in order to be valid. Most of my friends grew up with mentors, guidance, and resources to have a well grounded LGBT education. None but the foolish claim to have invented LGBT activism or act like it -- the history of what came before us and the advice from our mentors is part of what gives us the confidence to take leadership positions.

Second, when the choir is still committing suicide at such high rates, sometimes it needs a little preaching. I can say assuredly that my participation in "blogerrhea" has saved lives -- plural. Yeah, there are folks who run in circles trying to explain themselves to bigots, but they are certainly not preaching to the choir. Even when they might not be effective, they are cutting their teeth, learning the hard way about effective argumentation and self care.

Third, you say so yourself that there's immaturity among the older generations and maturity among the younger -- so why the across the board dig here? Do I even need to explain to you that many of us have grown up? That the folks you've complained about are not necessarily our leadership. In fact, the LGBT movement leadership remains solidly in the 30s and 40s crowd. And they aren't the folks I associate with running in circles on the internet.

Every generation builds on the world handed to it by the generation before. Good or bad, that's where our work begins.

Your old school ways have not accomplished anything measurable in the last decade.

So you are claiming that the victories in Kalamazoo, Michigan and Washington state on Nov 4, or the signing of the federal hate crime extensions a few days later, had nothing to do with four decades of education work done by people like Diane and her (and my) generation.

But hey, i am just an uppity 37 yo Latino who doesn't know diddly because . . .

You forgot to mention how arrogant and over-confident you are, and how unappreciative you are of accomplishments you benefit from and now take for granted. Your sorry attitude shows that Diane is worried for all the right reasons.

BTW, Diane said nothing, good or bad, about Latinos --- you're the one who had to bring that up. So what's your point?

As someone who is your senior, I find that today's younger gays came out sooner, are more comfortable in their own skin and are far less neurotic than my generation. They possess a clarity of thought that may elude us.

Moreover, I wouldn't be so quick to judge bloggers. Blogs provide a means of sharing ideas - even among the members of the choir. Blogs often provide something else that is vital to our movement - ridicule. It does get read and it does drive people to distraction. I take great pride in knowing (from his email blasts) that I have ruined a day or two for Brian Brown.

One more thought. The well-heeled gay establishment is representing us with neither our consent nor input. Some seem to be primarily interested in getting photos with powerful politicians (while clad in a tuxedo of course). I would welcome some fresh minds to ask the questions that we think we already know the answers to. Maybe we don't. In fact, maybe we don't know all the questions. If you ask me, we could use a good shake-up.

Wow, that was unpleasant. Well let's see, I'm a 40 something long time activist. My uncles were partnered in the 60s and were together for over 30 years. So I had some LGBT role models around. I have 5 kids and they are aware of the LGBT community, my daughter has been an activist ally for us and one of my sons is one of us. I was starting to date 10 years after Stonewall and I didn't really need to come out since my grandfather just up and told me that he knew and not to worry it runs in the family.
I work with lots of kids and they do come out sooner, and they do learn earlier about our movement and history and I mentor a lot of them.
They have the best networking communication skills that the word has ever seen. (Maybe if we would have had this type of system not so many of my friends would have died way back when, just saying)They have superior research skills and know how to locate and compare information very effectively.
I myself as a long time activist find the new generation to be impressive and I hope to see what they bring to this movement because some of my generation embarrass me. I've never found the LGBT youth today to be dismissive of me, I work with them and I listen to them and they listen to me. They even come to me for advice.
But then again I don't think that I speak down to them, or accuse them of things and I don't start of by setting an antagonistic tone.
I hope that the 20 somethings and the teens and the tweens who are becoming so self aware and so well informed at such an early age will not hold this blog post against my generation in general, I'm sure that you know someone in your own age group who goes off and says thoughtless things and embarrasses you.

I'm really not sure what you are attempting to accomplish with this article. It seems that your criticizing the younger generation of gblt activists but to what point?

If your trying that we are all in this together and we need to work together to achieve our mutual goals. I question your format, it seems deeply counter productive to what you want. I see three section of critique before I ever even get the core of your argument or your goal. If you want your message to be heard it needs to be at the front then followed by more productively phrased criticism. As it is, it just reads like a curmudgeonly old person complaining about todays youth.

I would like to point out some other things as well. Your generation did reinvent gblt activism and perhaps you could have done it more efficiently but you had to make a kind of that activism fits your goals and your time period. The younger people are creating a new kind of activism which fits their goals and their time. Its a constant process of recreation their simply isn't one kind of trans-historic activism that works for all people forever.

The internet provides a whole host of possibilities. Some of them are something of an eco chamber but most people don't obsess about it like you seem to imagine. If they do obsess over it, its been my observation, that it has a purpose it allows young people to find their voice. It allows them to try out ideas and most importantly it gives them a since of community and identity.

Your right many of the young do view things posited as suggestions as attacks. Then again like your post why must so many of the old guard offer suggestions that read like attacks? How are people supposed to learn if they aren't given the chances to attempt it? There are so few spaces for young queer people in established lgbt movements, that in many cases young people feel that if they want a space to grow in they must make it themselves. I wonder why that is?

Sam

I think this is a great, very honest post. Thanks Diane.

As a member of the younger generation (which no one ever brings up to me unless they want to dismiss what I have to say... I never get the "Look at the future of the gay community!" comments boys several years older than me are still getting... I know I make some people afraid to think that I'm part the future of the gay community), I was going to come in here with guns blazing. But I see that most people (especially Tobi) have already said what I wanted to say.

Plus, this post has a lot of truth to it that some people here would be wise to listen to. So I'll take it as a criticism of the "new generation" of LGBT activists that appeared just after Prop 8 passed, which seems to be a demographic group that includes gays up to the age of 70 (andrew Sullivan loves to say that he's a part of it too).

Thanks for the post Diane. I don't think it is an either or equation.

In my life mentoring has been beyond important- but the best mentors are those who realize they have something to learn from the mentee as well. That is when real collaboration and movement-building can happen.

I find myself becoming more and more alienated from the leaders of our LGBT blogs- this recent salvo for a DNC boycott is beyond frustrating.

Movement is happening- is it as quick as I like, no. But fuck, Hate Crimes has finally passed, we are an enumerated category in federal law. We are in the House health care bill. Things are happening.

My experience has been I can voice my anger with someone maybe one / two times. If I'm NOT always angry and calling for blood, people will listen, maybe take it in and make changes. But when I'm always angry, always not satisfied, people begin to just stop listening to you- feeling, anything they do is not enough so why try?

I hope the Obama Administration does not begin to view our community with a similar lens.

Beyond that, I find the idea of a DNC boycott hilarious, when most of the people boycotting have probably never given over $200 in their lifetime, if anything at all.

I have nothing against older generations of LGBT activists. In fact, I'm interested in knowing more LGBT history and about how we got where we are today. However, I'm not a fan of critical rants that have nothing constructive to add, and only one link from one blogger (one that a lot of people don't agree with) to back up said rant.

I see what you're doing here, Diane, and really appreciate it, but the message is getting lost in the mess. In fact, this movement has ALWAYS been about the youth--to a fault at times--and the old guard has always eventually fallen into two camps: those who accept and embrace the youth and encourage their involvement in positive ways--growing new leaders--and those who get crotchety and pissed of because their ring isn't getting kissed.

A lot about the way you wrap this post up makes me feel you're actually in camp one, but you sound like you're in camp two.

It hurts my soul sometimes when working with newly out undergrads who think that all that happened in the Queer movement before 2008 was Harvey Milk and Stonewall, but at the same time, I pick my battles. They are bringing a lot of great things to the table. They're fired up like we haven't been since Act Up's heyday--and that's a long time. Join the Impact, EAA, Day of Decision protests, the Kiss In, the Meet in the Middle for Equality... these are all signs that we are seeing a new Renaissance of LGBT activism, and I want to encourage it, rather than discourage it.

They'll pick up the gay history from the rest of us as they go along, but we have to be there with them side-by-side. As equals. You may not agree with me, but they actually have more of what we need than we have of what they need. If anyone deserves to earn anyone's respect, us those of us who've been in this earning theirs, rather than the other way around.

It bruises the ego a little to admit this to oneself. Despite all of the work I've put into this movement, none of it matters. I'm irrelevant unless I can relate to these up-and-comers. But its not the first time. Act Up in the 80s and GLF in 1970 swooped in in the same way, and we respect them all the more for it. We can't expect the youth to pay their dues to us. I'm not Dr. King. I've organized protests and rallies and organizations. Whooptie fucking doo, I invented nothing new. I just filled the spot waiting for someone else to do the same thing. I don't deserve any awards for my ten years of cookie-cutter activism. Respect, sure. A statue and honorary degree? Get a life.

The movement will always be helmed by the youth, and I'm fine with that. And--though I appreciate David Mixner and John Aravosis gushing over my youth last week--the truth is I'm not in that group anymore, tough as it is for me to admit. I'm not a veteran either. I'm in some sort of gooey, amalgamous middle ground, waiting for the next ten years of invisibility to pass. What I'm NOT, however, is bitter. I'm going to work with these youth and get stuff done with their energy that I was unable to do when I was their age.

The more that the veterans quit the work just because their egos aren't being rubbed the right way, the longer this will take. Likewise, the more the veterans try to bridal and corral the youth, the longer it will take as well. Surprise, surprise, they're going to make a lot of damn mistakes. You did too--to the chagrin of the veterans of the movement when you came of age, and all in your youthful exuberance.

Let's hope they make mistakes. They'll learn from them. Maybe things we never got to learn. We have to let them, though, and encourage them.

Edison made a lot of mistakes on his way to the lightbulb, and even tungsten was an accident. Alexander Graham Bell's first telephone conversation was an accident. A lot of amazing, happy accidents have led to really great things.

let's work alongside them rather than demand unwavering fealty. The results will be so much better, and they'll be much more willing to get to know and honor you when they know you as a person, rather than a Professor. Your legacy will last much longer.

That's real leadership. Knowing when to back off and give someone else the chance to shine.

Yea, thanks Diane- your post is just reminding some of us *me* that we are no longer considered youth! off to therapy again!

Every newly out queer kid should be given a copy of eric marcus' "making gay history." We don't teach gay history like we should--we teach queer theory, which is silly and self-congratulatory.

And Diane?

Good :D

If I'm not scaring ya, I'm not doing my job right :D

The real question is not about age or experience. Young activists can become very experienced very fast using powerful new tools like the internet. We saw that in the spate of demos after Prop 8 was approved and especially in the outstanding work building the NEM which was a huge success despite the early opposition and carping of most Democrats and our very threatened self-appointed leadership.

We shouldn't worry overly much about young people screwing up. It'll happen. They're not the first and won't be the last.

In any case how do their mistakes compare to enlisting GLBT support for the war as SLDN does? Or to selling out and gutting ENDA as Barney Frank and most Democrats did? Or voting for DADT and DOMA as most Democrats did? Or voting for Obama after he bellowed out "gawd's in the mix” on the eve of the vote on Prop 8?

I have some truly terrifying news. Young people are confidently coming out in junior and senior high schools all over the country. Gay folks in unions are organizing as never before. Antiwar sentiment in the armed forces is creating a very tough new generation of GLBT vets whose attitude is "That's Ms Dyke (or Mister Faggot) to you. Is there a problem?" And the most oppressed layers of our communities, transfolks, are coalescing into a militant movement creates apoplexy in sellouts like Barney Frank.

We’re seeing the opening stages of a massive radicalization because of repeated economic failures, the betrayal of the fight for single payer/socialized medicine, mass unemployment and even mass homelessness. All of that is spurred on by the White House’s arrogant racist attacks from Palestine to Pakistan. Newer, younger and likely much more militant layers are going to be streaming into the LGBT movements from high schools, the military and unions and elsewhere.

We should welcome them, not nag them.

The fundamental question is not age or experience but loyalty and commitment. Is someone loyal to the causes of LGBT equality and liberation or are they loyal to the Party of DADT and DOMA, Obama and Frank or just as bad, are they loyal to the Republicans. Are they in it for the long haul or simply to advance their careers?

No other question is as important as that in judging the worth of activists and leaders.

Holy Crap, Diane!
You did it!

You created a fantastic resource just by being provocative- all of these comments alone could help redefine a movement, reshape it, refocus it, refine it, renew it....

Fanfreakintastic.
G

Diane,

You sure do have a lot of folks on fire with this article. That can be a good thing.

I have to run out the door so I do not have time for specific replies, maybe later, but I will give you the strongest props for coming back to reply, communicate and even debate a bit.

I have sense a couple of mea cuplas... but I am not sure if I am reading into those...

This is much different than the Mixner guest post in which he came in and dropped off his divisive comments then never returned to discuss or maybe even acknowledge the wrong in some of them. Instead he replied via his personal blog... with dismissive comments.

Abrazos, and look forward to ongoing dialogues here on Bilerico...