Just FYI, this new law is in Pakistan, not India. India went M/F/O on voter registration a few months ago, and that's voluntary. Pakistan went M/F/H on national ID's, but it's just a court decision now and hasn't been implemented and I don't think there's an indication as to how they'll decide who's "H." Hopefully it'll be voluntary placement.

And yes, I need to seriously question yet another non-trans person coming onto Bilerico making statements about trans identities.

Of course. Because only trans people should blog about trans issues, but when there's no trans content who will be the first person complaining that the LGB community doesn't respect or cover T issues?

In one thread you're castigating Waymon - on a post about the death of his friend - for not identifying a hate crime victim as you would prefer (as versus how his family identified him, he identified himself, and the community-at-large identified him). In this one, the non-trans guy wrote a whole whopping 4 sentences and asked other reader opinions - and once again it gets turned into a "Look at me! I'm better than you because I'm trans! I'm the only one who can speak on this issue!"

Bullshit. Grow up.

Sometimes it's not about you. Sometimes it's about the grief of someone who's just lost a friend. Sometimes it's about just asking a question that can be answered without having to insinuate there is something bad about someone else for even touching trans issues.

If you want to know why so many LGB people don't engage on trans issues, look in the mirror. It gets old to constantly listen to the "me, me, me" complaints and constant bitching that trans issues don't get enough attention, but when they do it's never good enough unless done by a trans person that you like ('cuz, God forbid, that a trans person you don't like do something either!).

Bah. Ridiculous. But the snotty comments on Waymon's thread really take the cake for the lowest common denominator. Shame.

Cosigned. They should just remove sex markers from public documents, because it doesn't do a hell of a lot of good anyway.

Gee Joe, pardon my skepticism on your comment because the last gay guy on Bilerico who said something similar then proceeded to blog on who were the real women and proceeded to conclude it was women with penises and not women with vaginas!

You studied hijras, I lived in India as a teenager. I've spoken to hijras, listened to them. Gina's comment about hijras was dead on. And a correction on India's hijras.....they are running for local political positions and winning. hmmmm.

Under Islamic law, women of transsexual history are supposed to be accepted fully as women, not third sexed. This is hardly a progressive move given that.

Joe, I in no way want to write off your study of the Hijra or say you shouldn't comment on them. Yet I can't remove this post from the context of a number of other recent posts on Bilerico which have either dissed transwomen altogether (like Gold's), or 'othered' us as a number of transgender-related posts have. We also had Pedro Julio Serrano dismissing any trans connection to Jorge Lopez Mercado's death. Waymon Hudson (who is a gay man I respect) just posted something about Simmie Williams where William's trans identity was basically erased (even though she died presenting as a woman while doing sexwork). You're posting this in a very damaged environment when it comes to non-trans people discussing trans identities and it kind of feels like anyone with LGBT credentials can go on Bilerico and start telling trans people who we are or should be. (In that regard, this blog doesn't seem especially enlightened from the Gold experience).

The Hijra are a very mixed, diverse community who can't be discussed as monolithic "third gender" except when understanding they, as poor, relatively powerless people, don't have any other choice but to be third gendered. It works for some, while for others it's just what they're given to deal with. Without living in their communities, many if not most of them would be harmed (as trans women are all over the world). Same with the Kathoey in Thailand (who are also often-cited, but can't even change their governmental paperwork) and the communities in Indonesia and the Philippines.

Although some Hijra are getting very politically active of late (an incredible story) most of them don't expect a whole lot of even basic acceptance. While I don't want to project my own identity onto them (although I think many of them are very female identified), nor do I think it's helpful for Queer activists in the West to project their identity onto these communities as some kind of learning tool about queerness and smashing the binary. As was mentioned in Dr. Weiss's thread, re-labeling people without their consent is rarely about their best interests and usually not a great way to win their gratitude or solidarity.

trans culture? why would I do that? I'm an "angry bitch" remember?

I'm also a humourless feminist, a Pagan Priestess, a woman. I'm not a "trans-whatever".

And I am surprised calling me an angry bitch is allowed to pass TOS muster, but then I am subject to the double standard here on Bilerico.

@Chitown, the issue so often is not just the different culture you're dealing with, but also who within that culture is doing the defining (and the person studying them who's doing the interviewing). The reality is, so many studies of these "gender variant" subcultures are defined by how the larger society they live in views them and not necessarily how they view themselves in the light of their own lives. Until very recently, that's much how trans people in the US were viewed as well. We're now seeing a considerable amount of political activity by these groups in India, Pakistan, Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia (which was really, one of the biggest "T" stories of 2009 and wasn't mentioned on this site or on any LGBT blog). In the past several years, these social groupings are starting to define themselves and break out of their societies' traditional cages and some of the language which is coming out isn't sounding incredibly different than the various trans-related communities in the west. As we study them, please let's realize we're largely not talking about people who got to define or write about their own identities and whose direct words haven't been reported by foreign media without extreme filtering by the power structures within those societies.

Alex, there probably are GQ/genderfluid/two-spirit people who would like an "O" on their license, but you're right, that "O" doesn't really get much closer to defining what their identities are. They still deserve that option. The big issue is how involuntary it would become. As you very rightly stated, gender markers aren't voluntary in this country and no one should expect "O" would be either. There are people who would step into a DMV, automatically be assigned "O" (because of their appearance or manner) and then have to prove otherwise. Moreover, there are many clerks and bureaucrats who will NOT voluntarily assign someone with an "F" but would gladly assign them an "O" (which would become a substitute for "it"). I understand Joe's impulse to break down binary designations, but I don't think he understands the practice of how this would impact most trans people's lives in the US nor the actually repressive nature of it in Pakistan.

As someone who's had to go through all the pain, humiliation expense (about $1500 for the legalities alone!) and lost time getting all my ID and sex markers changed, I can state how hard the system bucks back when you go against their assignment, even when there are laws providing for it.