Alex Blaze

Party like it's 1993

Filed By Alex Blaze | January 20, 2010 5:30 PM | comments

Filed in: The Movement
Tags: bisexual, Don't Ask Don't Tell, gays in the military, lesbian, military, poll, polling, public opinion, soldiers, survey

In case you were getting too hopeful about this one:

In a new complication for President Obama's push to allow gays to serve openly in the military, the House Armed Services Committee chairman says he is "personally ... against" any change in law.

The opposition from Rep. Ike Skelton, D-Mo., is not unexpected; he played a key role in blocking the Clinton administration from lifting the military's gay ban in 1993. What is surprising is that Skelton is ready to directly fight attempts to include a repeal of the gay ban in the 2011 defense authorization bill.[...]

"We are in the midst of two major conflicts and I think that a disruption of this type could very well cause serious problems," he said.

Advocates for changing the law have talked of the possibility of fighting their battle with an amendment to the annual defense appropriations bill, which falls under the jurisdiction of the House Appropriations Committee, rather than the defense policy bill that goes through the armed services committee.

Public support for LGB people serving openly in the military has increased dramatically since 1993, growing from 44% to 75%. But the politicians themselves haven't changed, and I wouldn't expect all to much from the Democrats in 2010, especially considering that it's an election year that started with a tea bagger unseating a Democrat in Massachusetts.

But even I didn't expect a specific Democrat to come out against this - I assumed it would just get tabled by the party until at least 2011.

This is interesting from the poll data linked to before the jump:

33. On another subject, do you think homosexuals who do NOT publicly disclose their sexual orientation should be allowed to serve in the military or not?

Yes No No opinion
7/13/08 78 18 5
1/15/01 75 22 3
5/23/93 63 35 2

34. Do you think homosexuals who DO publicly disclose their sexual orientation should be allowed to serve in the military or not?

Yes No No opinion
7/13/08 75 22 3
1/15/01 62 35 3
5/23/93 44 55 2

While the distinction between out and not-out soldiers was important in 1993, with a 19 point spread between the two questions, in 2008 the difference is within the margin of error.

In other words, people are either for or against LGB people serving in the military and don't care all too much about whether they're out or not. DADT doesn't even make sense in that context.


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Heck, most of those old white pols would love to bring back the 'good ole days' and put women back in the kitchen and 'coloreds' back in the feilds... including the President.

Public support for LGB people serving openly in the military has increased dramatically since 1993, growing from 44% to 75%. But the politicians themselves haven't changed, and I wouldn't expect all to much from the Democrats in 2010, especially considering that it's an election year that started with a tea bagger unseating a Democrat in Massachusetts.

National polling data is irrelevant to US Senators. They're only interested in their own State's polling data. 28 States (based on State polling data) are anti-LGBT. It doesn't matter if the issue is DADT, DOMA or ENDA - they're anti-LGBT.

What state polling data are you referring to? The data I've seen is more optimistic:

http://www.bilerico.com/2009/10/via_the_minew_york_tiems.php

I don't know if there's a break-down on state data for DADT, but I'd suspect it'd generally be positive since 75% is a big part of the country.

Of course, that doesn't take into consideration how much people care about these issues, which I'm guessing isn't that much if they're not LGB and serving in the military.

I'm referring to Gallup and Pew Foundation.

The Chart you reference makes a few giant leaps in logic. The polling data regarding same-sex marriage is from Gallup (it appears that way) but I didn't find any references. I think they are trying to visualize (by extension) what some polls have shown on a National level, but have never actually been done State-by-State.

The SSM issue has been done by several polling organizations and I have commissioned several targeted studies.

"Religious Intensity" is almost identical to anti-LGBT sentiments. Meaning the more religious, the less favorable to LGBT issues.

Have a look at this: http://www.gallup.com/poll/114022/state-states-importance-religion.aspx

Some new polling data for all 50 States will be completed this Spring. What I've seen so far is very encouraging.

Democrats overwhelmingly voted for DOMA, as they did for DADT. They just don't have the initiative to do so as much as Republicans.

It's time those interested in LGBT-pertinent legislation realize that unwavering partisanship will not earn them any favors from the objects of their sycophancy.

Our LGBT organizations are partisan circle jerks that simply mete out galas and call it a victory when they get Lady Gaga to come to an inconsequential march to which politicians don't have an eye on.

What quickly got forgotten after Gen. Rectum Powell, Sen. Cracker Nunn, and the American Taliban declared nuclear war on Bill Clinton's effort to lift the ban that had existed since WWII is that, prior to their bombing, in fact several years before, a majority of Americans supported gays serving in the military even then.

As far back as 1977, when the first challenge to the ban by a gay servicemember was still very much in the news, that of Leonard Matlovich, 51% said they approved of gays in the military.

By August of 1992, that number had grown to 59%. But by three months later, after Powell, Nunn, et al., had started homohating attacks, only 48% supported it, "the first times since 1977 that support to end the ban actually fell." [Nathaniel Frank, "Unfriendly Fire"]

By December, it had dropped to 46%, by mid-January '93 to 42%, and two-weeks later [after the most intense "bombing," to 35%. [Results, as everyone knows, vary from poll to poll depending on how a question is asked. Apparently, it was only in 1993 that pollsters began to ask about letting gays serve OPENLY. If the May '93 figure is correct, there was at least some damage repair from January but not enough to cause the Administration to rethink its then more-or-less secret decision, even before the six-month "cooling off period" ended, to surrender.]

Skeletor's recent answer on C-Span's "Newsmaker" program is nothing new. He said the same thing last year, the year before, the year before that...and will until the day he dies.

HOWEVER, his opposition would not be insurmountable if we did not have a moral Coward-in-Chief.

"We are in the midst of two major conflicts and I think that a disruption of this type could very well cause serious problems,"

This is typical "pretzel logic," used to hide a person's bigotry. If we are in two major conflict, then it would make MORE sense to allow as many Americans to serve as possible. Fucking idiot.