Bil Browning

NOM Sign: Lynch Gay Couples to Save Marriage

Filed By Bil Browning | July 26, 2010 7:00 PM | comments

Filed in: Living, Marriage Equality
Tags: gay marriage, Indianapolis, marriage equality, National Organization for Marriage, NOM, religious right, same-sex marriage

The National Organization for Marriage's "One Man, One Woman" bus tour hit Indianapolis today and the LGBT community came out to greet them. Since we're hospitable Hoosiers, of course, gay-hate-sign.jpgour welcome wagon outnumbered the small dog and pony show put on by NOM and local religious right groups.

Over 250 LGBT and allied folks protested the rally, but only 40 fundies showed up. At least 10 of the anti-marriage equality crowd were NOM staff or local speakers; the rest of the group were older Caucasians and skewed slightly female.

One older attendee held this sign and the Courage Campaign, there to document the entire tour, got an interview with the man. It's included after the jump with another photo of the guy with the sign.

I'll be posting Maggie Gallagher's entire speech plus an exclusive interview with her this evening after I get back from the event sponsored by Freedom To Marry and local groups. Also behind the jump is a slideshow of photos that I took at the rally; it was a beautiful sight to see. It reminded me of when Fred Phelps church comes to town and the community always drowns out the sight of their hate and religious zealotry.

UPDATE Freedom To Marry has launched a petition asking NOM to disavow the man and his sign. Sign it here.

anti-gay-protestor.jpg

Photos courtesy of Alice Hoenigman and Wilson Allen.

Video courtesy of the Courage Campaign


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But Bil, Maggie says *we're* the haters, not them...

Yeah. I'd love to hear her spin about this guy.

Marja Erwin | July 26, 2010 7:18 PM

So this Larry Adams guy is making posters that call for murder, and putting his name on them...

Still, Marja, you can't help but respect him a little bit for the interview he gave. Many followers - like that women who interrupted him - and some NOM leaders themselves would just walk away or, in Brian's case, call in the police to have them towed away.

His beliefs are both misguided and detestable, but his courage is not. The only thing that the interview made me realize is that he really, really hasn't thought things through and is kind of parroting what he's heard from pastors.

He stated it himself: he was either curious, bisexual, or gay at one point in time. It's a shame that society oppressed/repressed him.

RJ, there is nothing to respect about courage in doing the wrong thing. Do we respect George Wallace for blocking doorways to black students? He was out in front of a wrong cause. People who put their face on the wrong side of history are not to be respected; they are to be feared and eventually marginalized.

Actually, Jeff, I respectfully disagree with you. Yes, George Wallace took the wrong side of the issue. Yes, Larry has taken the wrong side. But, the guy does show courage. Most of the NOM people want to donate money and then hide under the privacy they think the Constitution provides. They even sued for the right to not have their supporters' names published. At least, Larry has the courage of his convictions - no matter how wrong, immoral and short-sighted they are - to put his name and address on a sign, which I find absolutely revolting.

That man putting his name and address on that horrendous sign is baiting us to go and do something illegal. I fear that NOM supporters will go and hurt his property and then turn around and say it was our side that did it. This whole Summer Tour is one big video blog for NOM so that they can go to courts and say "See. This is how the gays really are violent. We need protection from these people. You need to change your laws so that we can bring referenda and ballot questions without transparency because we are afraid." IT'S A SET UP!!!!!!

davidblaine | July 30, 2010 2:08 PM

I guess by those standards Hitler was a courageous man and should be applauded for that too?

I didn't see it quite as courage, he seems a bit simple and naive actually. I do respect him for voicing his beliefs. I admire the restraint of the interviewer much more, I've found I can't remain so detached in those discussions. I'd at the very least have wanted to quiz him on his knowledge of the Book of Leviticus and the Ten Commandments, and find out how he'd reconcile those.

I'm sure most people have seen the famous "Dr. Laura letter..." One excerpt follows. Google "Dr. Laura Leviticus" if you want to see more.

* * *
"Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?"

Insighting violence and hatred is not courageous, it stems from a place of fear of something different than what you have known. Courage is looking at your religious beliefs from an objective point of view and having the adult ability to understand that beliefs are choices. Christians choose to ignore 75% of the bible's commands, with the understanding that they are not relevant to today. This man was defending with cowardice his prejudiced and hateful beliefs.
I do not respect him for being unable to examine the situation, as many Christians ARE able. He decided that killing and repressing others is morally sound. Quiet, self-assured hate is stealthy and dangerous.

I didn't play the interview, but I'm not surprised. I don't have much of a gaydar, but something about his face made it ping.
Self-haters are really sad. But I feel sadder still that in our society, the death threat looms over GBLTIQs.

RJ, I asked Larry if I could photograph the sign with the nooses. He stopped showing it about a half hour or so into the demonstration, and he said no.

Did someone actually get taken away by police? One of my blog readers informed me of a previous NOM event (http://carlosmiller.com/2010/07/22/maryland-capitol-police-threaten-videographer-for-arrest/ and http://carlosmiller.com/2010/07/23/maryland-capitol-police-chief-responds-to-pinac-reader-regarding-incident/), but I was unaware of any police action today.

That poster is utterly shocking.

"Excuse me, sir, I'm from NOM. Could you please leave? At an event such as this, we prefer that people not say out loud what we're privately thinking."

Andrew Belonsky Andrew Belonsky | July 26, 2010 8:10 PM

Ack! This is a new level of public anti-gay hate. Does that count as inciting violence?

If some gay couple were to be lynched in the area, he would surely be brought up on charges of that.

FurryCatHerder | July 27, 2010 11:24 AM

I'd hope that any violence against gays in that area, around that time, would result in charges -- not just a lynching.

Jerry Taggart | July 26, 2010 8:29 PM

I have seen this person at the St Pete Pride Festival for a couple of years now---this is not new, sadly

It would have been less of a story if no one showed up. We gave NOM attention when apparently the rest of America doesn't care.

When these crazies take their circus on the road we should ignore it or simply laugh from a distance. Most Christians are ignoring NOM, now, it's our turn.

We can help marginalize these idiots by letting them embarrass themselves, not by imitating or promoting them.

I disagree. I think it's important to bear witness to this sort of hatred. If the light of day doesn't shine on these haters, then no one will find out that they are embarrassing themselves. And we won't let our community know the danger we face.

Silence is consent. They must be called out for this behavior. Pretending it doesn't exist doesn't make it go away. This is the lesson of the Holocaust. This is the re-learned lesson from it of the AIDS crisis.

Silence=Death.

I'm with Rory on this. If we do not stand against this evil then it can continue unchallenged.

I am not suggesting that we believe that evil doesn't exist. What i know is that only one-third of our fellow citizens buy this crazy religious shit - it would be even less if we left them alone. They will disappear sooner if we stop engaging them and promoting them.

Two-thirds of America are over religious fanatics. They know they're crazy. They are marginalizing themselves - we shouldn't prolong that wonderful result.

Some anti-gay church gave out a few thousand little black cards at this years IndyPride that said "Silence=Death" on the front in white with the pink triangle. Had slander and a few irrelevent bible verses on the back. The guy who handed one to me slipped away before I could even flip it over.

Yay Indianapolis ...

They are relying on our invisibility and our silence. That way they control the message and the medium.

When the Fundies get up and claim to speak for "all" Christians, they're relying on the likelihood that no one will counter them. Sadly, that's usually what happens.

It's absolutely VITAL that we be visible and our message be heard. If we value our rights, we are morally bound to stand up for them: unmoving, unshaken, and undeterred. Otherwise we become victims to their incitement to terror.

Yes, yes and yes, ursomniac.

Your "fundies" are only one-third of all Americans who define themselves as "Christian." They are not taking over the world. The sky is not falling. They are going away - they're dying.

It doesn't help for us to pretend that they are a formidable enemy - they are not. They are going out of business. Understand that and you can put your energy into something more productive.

Maybe in terms of an historical overview, the Christian right is going out of business. But not anytime soon, and not in the foreseeable future. Some of us can't wait at least a generation or two for them to die off.

Do you ever change your mind, or at least consider any of the arguments here? Just wondering.

The "literal interpretation" Christians are the minority, not us. People that support our full equality outnumber them 2:1. They only seem significant because we keep making them significant.

Facts and compelling arguments can change my mind, especially if you use math.

76% of Americans are Christian. Take a third of that and 25% of Americans are fundamentalists. If they are a minority, they are the largest minority. Andrew proves there are more fundamentalist Christians than there are gay people...and black people...and latinos.

I think you should read comments before commenting.

Your fundamentalists are a minority compared to people that "support our equality." Majority/minority. Get it?

I didn't discuss the population status of Christians as being the majority. However, in this country, they are. And your implication that there are more GLBT people (i.e. - "us") than there are Christians is clearly fallacious. Your math doesn't add up. Further, there is no authoritative evidence that supports your claim that twice as many people support equal rights for GLBT people than who are against it.

Even if there was, the fact that we haven't won a single statewide vote giving us marriage equality, and that the predominance of our elected officials identify as Christians is more important than purported opinion polls. If the issues were as popular and straightforward as you make out, then we would have long since had ENDA as the law of the land, and DADT as not the law.

Things aren't so black and white.

Read the comment again.

People who support our full equality outnumber "literal interpretation" Christians by a 2:1 margin. That fact isn't a secret.

Our challenge is that passing laws requires support in the US Senate. There are currently 23 Anti-gay States. That's why we don't have 60 votes in the Senate.

There has been progress in the Northeast - States that have less religious-intensity than the South.
We lost in Maine because of low turn out. Chuches are great for inspiring turnout.

Could you please tell us where you got that number or how the data was gathered? Thanks.

A good portion of the data comes from Pew, ARIS, BARNA and Gallup. I purchased additional polling in specific parts of the US and did some focus group research, which is almost complete. They will be released when completed.

Most people who understand religion are well aware of the division within Christianity and most denominations. I wanted to know exactly what the members of those denominations actually believe, not what they're supposed to believe.

The results are encouraging. They also point to a path to victory.

We may outnumber them with sheer numbers but they greatly outnumber us with regards to political power.

We're going to change that very soon.

Chitown Kev | July 27, 2010 10:05 AM

Andrew, Nom (and their money backers) have money, power, and privilege in this society, far more than our side does.

You grossely underestimate them.

I disagree. I acknowledge that many people believe that NOM and the fundamentalists are a strong, effective force, but it isn't true. Plus, they're dying off and taking their bigoted beliefs with them.

Andrew, I must disagree. When NOM mounted a $40 million dollar campaign against us (Prop 8), that's not peanuts. NOM is funded by the Mormon and Catholic churches who have no end of a supply of money. Please don't try to pull the wool over our heads.

$40 million is nothing. We have the resources - we just don't have a strategy - NOM does. Shame on us.

I disagree with you Andrew.

In the 60s when blacks and supporters would march peacefully in the street, and got set upon by riot police with dogs and hoses, the fact that it was publicized made people realize how inhumane and psychotic the opposing side was.

I think the same applies here.

We are giving them negative attention. As you said, a minority think gays should be killed, but the majority does think marriage should be male/female only or have no opinion, and this majority is turnable. To see the anti-gay marriage side behave in this manner loses points for them, and, consequently, for the entire movement.
Meanwhile, for us to so greatly outnumber them at these rallies, makes us appear strong, both in belief and in number. We are shown in a positive light, with much support, and thus that makes people more likely to side with us.

To hide these people is a bad idea; the public should know that these sickos exist and are the ones saying we're the evil folk, and that we can't marry because of it. It makes people think they must be wrong, because they're calling for murder.
If they had no attention, then people wouldn't be aware such psychos existed, and thus wouldn't see being against gay marriage as bad as they would if they saw that these psychos were on their side.

Kind of like that South Park episode where the town flag was going to be changed because the KKK joined a side, and nobody wanted to side with the KKK, so they'd vote opposite of what the KKK wanted.
IE: People won't want to be on the same side as these psychos, so they'd be more likely to work for our side.

This is how I feel.

I appreciate your comment, but it's 2010. The world has changed - it's our turn.

Christoph | July 26, 2010 8:38 PM

NOM=NOOSES ON (GAY) MEN ??

Shame on you both, Maggie and Brian!!

I didn't see anyone actually get taken away..a couple of times they moved us back from the NOM crowd and made us stand right behind the statue, but that was about it..The police were very nice

Nom now stands for National Organization for Murder

Someone should hold up a sign with the following in answer to their Bible-thumping ignorance:

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother... all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die... Deuteronomy 18:18-21

Guaran-dang-tee every last one of those sign-waivers have children who are stubborn, rebellious, and disobedient (what child is not?).

How should we act and what should we do oh wise one? Tell us as you know obviously it all.

Seriously, you disapprove of any action it seems except to change hearts andminds by just being nice. Puhleassse!!!!

I didn't say to be "nice" Rann, I said be "smart."

This Post is about counter-protesting the nut jobs. NOM's bus tour is a big failure. They are not getting any turnout. They are only getting coverage because WE are showing up. Media coverage would be more beneficial to us if they simply reported "low turnout." They are weakening and most people see them as "crazy." Let them sell their crazy, they don't need our help.

We win this battle by understanding, and by doing the work necessary to create our equality - talking to friends, neighbors, co-workers and strangers. You'll never win an argument with a religious fanatic, so why have one? Let them sell their crazy without our help. We sell equality. People buy equality.

Andrew, I must disagree with you again. I could not care less what my neighbor thinks of me or my sexual orientation. That is not the question when we are talking about Constitutional Rights. Fuck the moronic neighbors, they probably have never even read the Constitution. I firmly believe the only way we are going to be equal is through suing, suing, suing based on rights breeched by the government itself. It took black folk nearly 100 years after the civil war to get their rights, but hopefully in today's fast paced environment, we might be able to cut that in half, but only through the judiciary.

You may be correct. As best I can tell you will prevail with your "suing" within 30 years. I don't want to wait. Talk to your neighbors and we can finish this in just a few years.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 didn't end racism. Conversation does.

Why are you afraid of your neighbors? Why can't you ask them to support you?

I am not afraid of my neighbors. I know the statistics. 50% of Americans have an IQ below 100, making them vulnerable to any tripe anyone wants to spew. 75% of Americans believe in Angels and supernatural events. I don't have the patience to talk to ignorant superstitious people and I WILL NOT ASK FOR THEIR PERMISSION TO LIVE AS I PLEASE within my Constitutional Rights, I DON'T HAVE TO because I am a Citizen.

So, these "ignorant, superstitious people" determine your fate? That's smart.

Siobhra A DeWar | July 26, 2010 10:19 PM

And it is people like them that I belong to the Pink Pistols. (GLBT Gun Club)
But things are changing.
Twenty years ago when I first got my license to carry a firearm you could not dare let on that your Gay at a gun range. Now they all know and don't care. I get invited to all the parties.
The hate groups are shrinking.

Did you notice that Rev. Adams admitted to being an ex-gay? He says, essentially, that up until the age of 40 he liked dick. He's been brainwashed by the born-agains into being a self-loathing stereotype. He should be the poster child for NOM, yet they wanted nothing to do with him. It's all about the spin control. They can't stand it when the real message gets out and they're shown for being the hate-mongers they really are.

Brian Martin | July 27, 2010 12:09 AM

Dear NOM, FOF, Evergreen International, Exodus International and all other ignorant, hypocritical religious entities,

No one chooses to be gay and most never wanted to be. A great many like myself fell to their knees to pray, sobbing like babies, pleading with God to help them; to forgive them; to cure them. We sought reparative therapy and religious counseling. We lived in fear and in despair as we wondered why God had forsaken us, why he had not answered our prayers. Finally breaking through the din I heard a voice say, “Why do you listen to them? They know not of what they speak and they DO NOT speak for me. I did not forsake you for I have been with you and speaking to you all along”.

"You do not need reparative therapy for you are not broken. You do not need cured for you are not ill. You do not need forgiveness for you have done nothing wrong. You do not need their compassion, understanding or love for you have always had mine. Go now and rejoice for you are as I have made you; a wondrous and unique individual who deserves all the love and happiness you can find".

So f#

Calm Voice of Reason | July 27, 2010 2:07 AM

Hate should never go unchallenged, unwitnessed or without a measured objection, lest it gives the impression the hate is condoned.

We can learn from the various responses to Fred Phelps, of 'God Hates Fags' fame.

While many at first thought it best to starve Phelps of the media attention his group so craves, as they have widened their protests to include military funerals, and lately Synagogues, Jewish Community Centers and Women's organizations, there have been some impressive measured responses. And some of them have been empowering and wonderful.

One of the best responses I saw was a video of a frat house at the U. of Chicago. When Phelps' group showed up to protest something, the (mostly straight)frat boys blasted Diana Ross' "I'm coming out' and started dancing. The campus joined in. The video is below.

These responses bring allies together to stand up to hate, use humor, and drown out the hate while denying the haters the conflict that feeds their victimhood and media attention.

Check these out:

1. Frat Boys Welcome Westboro Baptist Church to U of Chicago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZfZiBRFM5w&annotation_id=annotation_205595&feature=iv

2. In SF, Twitter's Answer to Westboro Baptist Church
http://www.asylum.com/2010/01/29/westboro-baptist-church-protests-gets-protested-outside-twitter/

3. Michael Moore on Westboro Baptist Church
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_fAYl4Th4

I hope these links don't violate any TOS. They're worth learning from.

I would like you to consider how NOM looks when they are ignored - especially in light of this:

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2010/07/real-reason-for-noms-hate-tour.html

NOM wants to use you. Surely you disagree with that.

Our World will be so much better when all these white old turds die off.

NOM -this hate response is YOUR fault. This is HATE, and you are a HATE GROUP.

@Brian
The only peeps that need reparative therapy are our haters.

I wonder if he follows everything in Leviticus or just the parts about hating the gays?

Gay on gay violence. We don't need straight people to want to kill us because there are queers like this guy willing to do it for them.

Odd how all these Bible-thumping, sign-carrying idiots can find Leviticus, but miss all the parts of Scriptures (both Old and New Testaments) that attack them for being self-righteous. A friend of mine calls it 'selective reading'. Ecclesiastes 7:16 says it all. "Do not be overly righteous or overly wise...why destroy yourselves?" Using the Bible to justify your own biases shows how very UN-Christlike those bastards really are! As Ghandi said, "I like your Jesus, but I don't like your Christians."

The only CHOICE in being gay is CHOOSING to ACCEPT what you know you cannot change!

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If you're going to obey one law, you've got to obey them all:

Do not deceive one another.

...

Do not go about spreading slander among your people.

...

Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

...

When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

...

If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife — with the wife of his neighbor — both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

Leviticus Ch. 19, vs. 11, 16, 19, 33-34; Ch. 20 vs. 9-10 (NIV)

I love that. Whenever I say it to the Bible Thumpers, it usually shuts them up. Personally, I think, since Larry put his name and address on the poster, we should all mail him letters and ask him why he doesn't support all of the laws in Leviticus!

Moreover, such events should be catered with shrimp cocktail and little skewers of rare beef stuffed with blue cheese and wrapped in bacon --- at least Leviticus doesn't prohibit A-1 Steak Sauce.

All these (hater's) like to go by the Bible right,how many times have these(hater's) been married more than once.I t is so wrong to use the Bible only on few thing's,if you are going to use it then use it all,do NOT judge that is apart of the Bible,and hate lol on my judgement day I would rather God talk to me about loving someone then hateing anyone.Hate enough move on get a life and stop judgeing anyone who is not like you.

Your logic is correct, many of the NOM people divorce and re-marry without much thought about it.

However, the problem here is deeper than selective logic: the fact is that parts of the Bible contain what we now must regard as hate speech, yet the entire Bible has been sanctified by the Church. As long as these idiots insist that the Bible is totally without error, we will have to contend with bigotry like this that is blessed by the Church. Only the more progressive Christian denominations acknowledge that the Bible has to be interpretted in historical context, and thus it contains pronouncements that we must regards as "errors" today. The Bible says gays should be put to death, it condones slavery, and in many ways it states that men have more rights than women. A modern person has to reject all of these.

Scott Amundsen | July 27, 2010 12:03 PM

What nobody seems to notice is that these people who constantly make posters with that verse from Leviticus on them are inevitably and exclusively talking about MEN. Most of the time, Lesbians are hardly mentioned at all, and when they are it is almost as an afterthought. Proving that what really raises their "ick" factor is the idea of two men making love. Apparently two women making love is no big deal (of course some of the straight men probably think it's hot).

This man's clearly a sociopath and needs to be institutionalized. The saddest thing is that he's getting so much attention, when there are sane people with much more important and cogent messages for the world to hear.

Hmmmm.....I wonder what the history reveals on his computer.

In this context, at least, I think the quality of "courage" may be overrated.

The courage of their convictions has carried humans into perpetrating assorted horrors.

Bill Maher ran into trouble calling the 911 hijackers "courageous." Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say that they, and this man, were emboldened by their convictions. Either that, or start attaching some negative associations to the notion of courage.

What's really weird about this guy is that he said he had "temptations" when it came to same-sex attraction. Yet another text-book-case closet queen! It's so obvious. Where do they get these guys from, central casting? UGGGGGHHHHHH!

TJ Turner | July 27, 2010 2:24 PM

Ok, I'll give the fundamentalist homophope the bible thumping blah, blah. If I were a spiteful person, I would point out that very near that same verse that he quotes God commands his men to have a full beard, and Mr. Larry is frightfully cleanshaven. But I'm not...I am just going to say that when God said that they shall surely be put to death, he meant by His own hand, not by the hand of man. And that one of His commandments is the "Thou shall not kill." So...yeah...nice try NOM, but no dice.

Yeah, as Barney Frank says, "They made it into the Ten Commandments, we didn't."

A. GoodGrief | July 27, 2010 3:24 PM

This is pathetic! It violates the integrety and intelligence of all Christians!!! Are you people not aware that our sexuality is controlled by our genes? It's in your DNA. Check it out on google for Heaven's sake. Some of us have more of the male or female gene than others in our bodies. The use of violence against God's own creation is an abomination to you who are doing this !!!! GET SMART!


OH YEAH he has had the temptation !

He was confused until he was 40 and became self-hating.

Pathetic.

Funny these groups never seem too worried about the 52% divorce rate AMONGST STRAIGHTS and how damaging divorce is to the traditional marriage and to their children.

It was refreshing to see this man state his opinion( which I DO NOT agree with) in a respectful way & w/o being hateful or beligerent. So, I give him credit for that. I also appreciate that the interviewer was respectful of his opinion & not beligerent either. I'm Catholic, raising our kids Catholic but I just do not believe that God is this hateful or discriminatory. He teaches love & tolerance....not hate & murder which is what a lynching is! It saddens me to know that someone is so fearful & ignorant of what is 'different' that they think a lynching is acceptable! I find it interesting that he says artificial insemination is against God's will. I guess my husband & I should've remained childless in order to ensure our entry into the pearly gates!?

What I would respect is if he had the balls to get over his religious based bigotry. That would be courage.

Leviticus also strictly prohibits the wearing of clothes made of 2 different materials, and the planting of more than one kind of seed in a field. It also prohibits the eating of a pig. But I'm sure this geezer has never even read Leviticus.

These people do nothing but promote hate. Sodom and Gamorra was about the angels being raped by the men. All christians do is LIE. MEN wrote the bible NOT God. I believe the first bible which had nothing in it about this had teachings from God in it. MAN aded whatever they wanted to it. Last time I chkeced you arent suposed to kill anyone but christians can just overlook whatever rules they want to. Pathetic and sad. Im glad I learned the truth about religion and christians. All religion does is teach hate. If these people will be in heaven Im NOT interested. Christians are hate filled bigot liars! End of story. Save your hate for church where it belongs with your hate filled God!

Rev. Stan Watson | July 30, 2010 12:08 AM

Matthew;
Not all christians are like those people. You are as bad as they are when you group us together like that. I remember reading at least one other post that stated that he/she was catholic and that they were raising their children to be tolorent of others that are not like themselves.

I, myself am an ordained Minister. I teach tolorence of all people no matter their position in life. Some one posted that the bible was written by man. The Bible may be Gods' word but it was translated by man. I believe that to be true. As far as I am concerned, the bible is meant to be a "referance guide", not a "how to" book.

Not all christians are like those people.

Oh, how do we tell you apart? Which Christian denominations have rejected the teaching/belief that "homosexuals are wrong, sinful and deviant?" Which ones? Can you provide a list?

I also find your teaching of "tolerance" to be offensive. We don't need to be tolerated because their is nothing wrong with us. We are not defective.

How about teaching equality instead of tolerance? How about including in your formal teachings the truth: their is nothing wrong with homosexuals and being a homosexual is not a sin.

Will you and your Christian denomination make that simple statement?

Andrew,

Tolerance isn't about liking someone that is less than you, or wrong, it is about tolerating people that are different than you. Tolerance will lead to equality; we should be celebrating people like Matthew, not insulting them.

In the context of religion, tolerance is about accepting homosexuals despite the fact that they are wrong, sinful or defective. The premise is wrong, we don't need to be tolerated. That isn't insulting, it is "us" rejecting their bigoted beliefs.

At the end of these comments are several from "shadow_man" that seek to argue biblical interpretation. They are a waste of time. Religious conversation - it the context of our equality - are useless. Instead, asking people to embrace the simple human principle of equality - without trying to argue religious dogma - is effective. Put equality before Jesus and we can accomplish a lot.

I hope we all realize that this is nothing new. Conservative Christians have been calling for various forms of death penalty for lesbians and gay men at LEAST since Tim LaHaye of Left Behind fame published The Unhappy Gays in the 1970s. LaHaye believes in executing lesbians and gay men to serve as an example to others. Fun. Christian.

Once we abandon reason (e.g. Believing in benevolent supernatural beings) then ANY conclusions can be drawn. If I begin a logical derivation with the postulate that 1 equals 2, then 10 equals 20 and ultimately all numbers are equal. Garbage in, garbage out as they say.

The REAL problem here is that humanity continues in its futile attempt to discern absolute rules mandated by a divine being when no such being exists. Homosexuals have no more basis to maintain that "God" loves them any more than Mr. Adams contention that God hates them. It's all crap.

If we can ever get past this flaw in our logic we might have a chance to look at matters objectively. Case in point, homosexuals exists and they are entitled to all the rights and priviledges as heterosexuals. It gets very simple with God out of the way.

To those of you using the Bible as a weapon against homosexuality, you are wrong. Homosexuality is not a sin. The Bible is constantly being taken out of context to support anti-gay views. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, Greek temple sex worship, prostitution, pederasty with teen boys, and rape, not homosexuality or two loving consenting adults.


http://www.soulfoodministry.org/docs/English/NotASin.htm
http://www.jesus21.com/content/sex/bible_homosexuality_print.html
http://www.christchapel.com/reclaiming.html
http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/BiblicalReferences.php
http://www.gaychristian101.com/

For those of you claiming homosexuality is a "lifestyle", that is a false and ignorant statement. Homosexuality is not a choice. Just like you don't choose the color of your skin, you cannot choose whom you are sexually attracted to. If you can, sorry, but you are not heterosexual, you are bi-sexual. Virtually all major psychological and medical experts agree that sexual orientation is NOT a choice. Most gay people will tell you its not a choice. Common sense will tell you its not a choice. While science is relatively new to studying homosexuality, studies tend to indicate that its biological.

http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/03/differential-brain-activation.pdf
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html
Gay, Straight Men's Brain Responses Differ
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155990,00.html
http://www.livescience.com/health/060224_gay_genes.html
http://www.springerlink.com/content/w27453600k586276/
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2008/06/16/172/

There is overwhelming scientific evidence that homosexuality is not a choice. Sexual orientation is generally a biological trait that is determined pre-natally, although there is no one certain thing that explains all of the cases. "Nurture" may have some effect, but for the most part it is biological.


And it should also be noted that:
"It is worth noting that many medical and scientific organizations do believe it is impossible to change a person's sexual orientation and this is displayed in a statement by American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association."

The National Library of Medicine pubs confirm that sexual orientation is natural, biologically induced in the first trimester of pregnancy, morally neutral, immutable, neither contagious nor learned, bearing no relation to an individuals ability to form deep and lasting relationships, to parent children, to work or to contribute to society.

From the American Psychological Association: homosexuality is normal; homosexual relationships are normal.

The American Academy of Pediatrics, American Psychological Asociation and American Psychiatric Asociation have endorsed civil marriage for same-sex couples because marriage strengthens mental and physical health and longevity of couples, and provides greater legal and financial security for children, parents and seniors.

America's premier child/mental health associations endorse marriage equality.

This was taken from another poster that shows why we need to legalize gay marriage. If you don't feel for this person after reading it, you simply aren't human.

"I am not sure what our President thinks of this dicission but coming from a poor family and knowing what discrimination is all about I would assume he would not care if "Gays" have equal rights. The whole reason why they are asking for rights to be considered married is from the same reason why I would be for it. My own life partner commited suicide in our home with a gun to his heart. After a 28 year union I was deprived to even go his funeral. We had two plots next to each other. But because we did not have a marriage cirtificate "(Legal Document)" of our union his mother had him cremated and his ashes taken back to Missouri where we came from. That is only one example how painful it is. His suicide tramatized me so much and her disregard for my feelings only added to my heartach. That happened on March 21 of 2007 and I still cannot type this without crying for the trauma I have to endure each day. Oh did I mention I am in an electric wheelchair for life? Yes I am and it is very diffacult to find another mate when you are 58 and in a wheelchair. "

The American Psychological Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and the National Association of Social Workers state:

"There is no scientific basis for distinguishing between same-sex couples and heterosexual couples with respect to the legal rights, obligations, benefits, and burdens conferred by civil marriage."

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/courts/supreme/highprofile/documents/Amer_Psychological_Assn_Amicus_Curiae_Brief.pdf

Thus, mental health professionals and researchers have long recognized that being homosexual poses no inherent obstacle to leading a happy, healthy, and productive life, and that the vast majority of gay and lesbian people function well in the full array of social institutions and interpersonal relationships.

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/courts/supreme/highprofile/documents/Amer_Psychological_Assn_Amicus_Curiae_Brief.pdf

The research and clinical literature demonstrate that same-sex sexual and romantic attractions, feelings, and behaviors are normal and positive variations of human sexuality.

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/therapeutic-response.pdf

The longstanding consensus of the behavioral and social sciences and the health and mental health professions is that homosexuality per se is a normal and positive variation of human sexual orientation.

http://www.apa.org/about/governance/council/policy/sexual-orientation.aspx

surprised? no.
hate & ignorance is the same no matter how they try to dress it up.

Someone put this guy on TV. I am sure we will gain 10% points of support.

1. The Old Covenant was fulfilled. 2. A New Covenant was made, by the One who fulfilled the Old Covenant. He says all we have to do is believe He fulfilled the Old Covenant and 'follow Me'. 'Sealed by My blood' He said. SO...as a Christian I no longer have to fear what any person says or calls my sin. It doesn't matter what that sin is. I have been forgiven. If 'God is love' why do His followers hate so much! I know they don't quite get it. Jesus touched the unclean, which was against 'the law'. He told the story of the Samaritan, hated by the other Jews in the area. Peter had the dream of the unclean food. God said, 'Do not call unclean what I call clean, rise and eat.' 3 times no less! God does LOVE everyone. Even Larry. We should pray for him. Oh, and by the way, I'm a gay Christian!

this is fucked up fuck these antigay freaks im lesbian and proud so if anyone doesnt like it they can die stupid fucks they disgust me

Regardless of how anyone feels about gays, unless your gay, its not your nightmare to deal with. Often religion is used as a weapon to attack anything someones opposed to. I'm not gay however I see how screwed up the gay people are. The highest rate of suicide, highest rate of domestic violence, highest rate of alcohol and drug addiction other than cops.Fix your own screwed up beliefs before distracting yourself with others burdens.

The MEANING of the word "MARRIAGE" today is NOT the same as it was even 150 years ago. Why? Government involvement has changed the very meaning when spoken by MOST people. That's the problem. Most people -even the most vocal; -DON'T know what they're talking about when the say the word & hence they completely misrepresent any semblance of legal competence regarding the matter!
The issue is very DIFFERENT from what most people presume and most people have not even taken the steps to discern what the modern use of the term implies -ESPECIALLY when it's in the mouth of the state! Click on the Associated URL for an essay that will turn your world view upside down. the supreme court of the united States has already ruled on the issue. Did you know that?
http://g0ys.org/marriage.htm

DavidAndrew | August 15, 2010 2:44 AM

Sources Salth? Or is this just like the propaganda spread during integration that Black boys would rape white girls if race mixing occurred? Or VD would skyrocket from loose Black females seducing good clean white boys? (No I am not Black.) Or everything you said about homosexuals being said about Blacks then? Perhaps because LGBTQ individuals are demonized and persecuted by society is the cause of drug abuse and suicides but I live in Meth Capital in Mid-America where almost ALL of the Meth labs are in heterosexual homes with children. I have never heard of an LGBTQ home with a meth lab but I suppose one must exist but the biased television stations here would eat that up like your own assertions and they would keep it playing in the news for weeks. Read any mid-western paper's headlines or go to YouTube for TV News channels from Oklahoma, Missouri, Kansas, etc. and watch the weekly bust of straight couples addicted to meth and hurting each other and their kids. Go to this link and see my straight neighbor's addresses for meth labs. These are called facts with sources not myths like what you claim about LGBTQ people.

http://www.fortsmithpd.org/NarcoticUnit/MethSeize.asp

Family values? This many in such a small city? Propaganda are lies. Unlike my straight neighbors I do not use drugs nor does my partner who I have lived with for 21 years and never have we hit each other and we hardly raise voices in our disagreements. Hitler liked to do what you do. He spread myths and propaganda that had little reality behind it. He seduced a nation and not enough people stood up for truth. I can't allow you to spread misconceptions and skewed views without a reality check from JesusLand aka Meth-Capital USA.

Why hasn't law enforcement dealt with this sign yet. Clearly, this is a violation of the Matthew Sheppard Hate Crimes Act!!!

The word "homosexual" does not appear anywhere until 1892; it does not appear in English until 1912, nor in French until 1907. It appears no where in the Jewish or Christian bibles. The word that people are referring to is "effeminate" and it means a sacred form of sexual prostitution that was common among many ancient religions, especially that of Cana where qadesh were priests who engaged in such acts to encourage crops to grow. To read the Bible in contemporary English is to read the Bible with thousands of grammatical, linguistic and stylistic errors that are incorrectly translated and even worse interpreted. The Bible does not condemn homosexuality, and Jesus said nothing about it (after all, he never had a girlfriend nor married as far as the Bible records, and only lived with males).